I have neither time, resources nor know-how to like go all out on data privacy. But I try doing things like using Proton for Mail, browsing with DuckDuckGo or Ecosia, messaging on Signal instead of WhatsApp, etc.
But I’m having a hard time responding to people who say “why do you do that, it’s completely pointless since companies like Google have all of our data anyways unless we go all out, and nobody has time for all the effort that takes”.
Ok, what is your social security number, email address with password, your date of birth, and if applicable, your mother’s maiden name.
It’s all out there right?
Please give me you bank account password, it’s all out there anyway.
I don’t really have this conversation with people.
This stuff is important to me, it’s not really accessible to people without lots of time and the same interest.
If the rise of techno-lords of this neo-feudalist era hasn’t made it clear to people why privacy is important then it isn’t even worth having the conversation with those people anyway. Privacy is an spectrum and 100% privacy is extremelly difficult to achieve and potentially not worth pursuing to the average people unless your life or someone else’s you love is under threat.
But while 100% is not worth it to the average people, getting very close to it isn’t super difficult nowadays granting you have or know someone with the technological knowledge to achieve it: Nowadays you can use Firefox with proper adblocker extensions for free, get a phone that is de-googled out of the box, you can switch social networks from centralised ones to federated ones, self-host a lot of cloud services very cheaply, etc. True that some technical knowledge (and time) is required to achieve a decent level of privacy. Finding the time isn’t that difficult if one cares a little (they are one online search away), the technical bit is the hard one and maybe a good reason for those of us that self-host to start federating more and more services (but this is another conversation). The fact is, who nowadays doesn’t care about privacy is because they have chosen to do so.
So if the conversation even arises, I sometimes flip it by pointing out how shitty their preferred online service (or even operating system) has become in the recent years, just to tell them I have a totally different online experience than them. If they are curious I can show them how, if not, then they shouldn’t care about me as it’s obvious they don’t care about themselves in the first place.
That sounds like: “Freedom doesn’t matter because some freedoms are already gone”
I mean, Google might have your info, but why make it easier for non-Google adversaries to like, say, scammers have access to your bank info, or your emotionally abusive parents parents have access to your digital journal?
Even if we can’t hide it from governments or corporations, there are still inter-personal privacy to maintain, and that can be more significant and impactful to your everyday life, than you being just file on a large database.
No, it’s not “all out there”.
I use Google, and they have data about me, and while it’s a lot through Android, settings limit quite a bit what they may do, collect, connect, and reuse. And partly because they have this significant information and control, I make a deliberate effort to not use their email. Email gives a lot more insight, attack surface (technically and through knowledge) and control (almost every service or their uses email in one way or another).
Email is so central, I don’t want to depend on a free service by a huge impersonal/dehuman corp. My phone has data even without Google. I could migrate. With email, migrating data is possible with caveats, but changing the address on all services I use is infeasible.
Ultimately, is a matter of dependence, risk, and convenience. If they’re fine with the risks, that’s on them. Most people are not as poweruser or caring. And that’s fine by me - I can’t and don’t want to invest into wasted effort beyond where appropriate and voicing or offering to a degree.
“Privacy is dead” only once you lose all legal rights to your own information. It may be “already out there”, but at least you still have some legal recourse for when your information is being used by a 3rd party, without your consent. (or at least it should)
No one should have the right to just clone your identity, or make AI images in your likeness, or even sell your confidential information to advertisers, against your wishes. If there aren’t laws already protecting your rights in that regard, where you live…there should be.
I’m currently fighting my city over flock cameras and I’m hearing this a lot. More people should care about privacy.
Tell them about surveillance pricing. It’s a good example because the information “already out there” is used to influence how much the stuff they buy costs. Another example would be unsecure home security/doorbell cameras that anyone on the internet can watch (if you know where to find them). Their camera feeds are “already out there”, so ask them if that’s ok.
Ask to see their bank account transactions.
If the data is out there then they should have no problem showing you.
Or ask their phone and browse through all the photos.
The police have a pretty low hanging bar to getting banking information and the police often seem to ignore the laws for the privileges of using their badges as leverage over private industry and companies. And they use that banking access to fuck with people that don’t like them.
That shit is not “private.”
But banks/credit unions/companies would rather sell you twice than tell you that.
Well, knowing banking information is different from getting their password. One is info like balance and details while the other allows me to transfer all your money.
Not that I disagree with the general mindset but, this isn’t a valid comparison because its unequal. It’s misinterpreting what those people are saying. There is a difference between giving your landlord a spare key and hanging that spare key on the community bulletin board.
What people really mean when they say “it’s already out there” is that people with the skillset or job to obtain the data have the ability to, not that the everyday person has the ability to. It’s not unknown the information is already out there, but that doesn’t mean that you would want to just publicly disclose the info.
I’ve had moderate success by using a handful of quotes over the years whenever this topic comes up with friends or family.
“Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” - Edward Snowden
This quote can substitute out the “free speech” bit for “gun rights” if you are talking to a gun nut.
“I like to close the bathroom door when I’m taking a shower. It doesn’t mean I’m doing anything immoral in there, I just have the right to privacy.” - Anonymous
A fair followup question when they say “why bother, it’s pointless anyway,” that might provoke some thought on their part is: “Do you ever make any effort at all toward a goal that is ultimately a drop in the bucket? Have you ever recycled a single plastic bottle? Covered the PIN pad when entering your PIN number at an ATM? Walked to the store instead of driven? Written a letter to a congressman? If so, why? The overall effect of your action was probably negligibly small in the grand scheme of things, so why did you bother to put any effort in at all?”
The answer to that question is: just because you can’t get to 100% privacy/eco-friendliness/whatever goal it is you have, doesn’t mean you can’t put in some degree of effort to protect your rights, the earth, or hold your government accountable.
They don’t have to ditch Google entirely in one day. That’s ludicrously hard and even privacy advocates like myself can’t do it easily. You take incremental steps when you are ready. Ditch Chrome when you have the bandwidth and get Firefox. Ditch Google search in favor of DuckDuckGo when you think you can deal with the different experiences. etc, etc. Everyone’s journey is different.
Another one is “Just cause you have nothing to hide today, doesn’t mean you won’t tomorrow.”
Especially looking at the US, the assumption that what is worth hiding can’t change is dangerous. You’re comments/conversations that are legal today may be used against you in the future.
“If you think privacy doesn’t matter then i invite you to shit in the square” Btw, i 100% agree with you
Give me your debit card pin.
You might be right. Privacy may be dead, but I hope you’ll forgive me for not dancing on its grave.
Okay, let me see your browser history.
And while I’m at it, can I sit in that corner over there and watch you have sex with your wife?
Oh are we getting a little uncomfortable now? May I take a dump while you shower?
Wait, wait! What do you mean you suddenly care about privacy?
Sounds fun! Wanna get together this weekend?
Privacy protects us from scammers and other criminals, right? Why are you pro-crime? That’s weird.
