I know there’s probably no understanding it, but it’s keeping me up at night. When prompted with “what are your pronouns?” chuds will often reply with that they have no pronouns. But then if asked if they can be referred to as he/him, they’re fine with it. Plus being fine with using me/you/I etc. I’ve even heard them say they don’t consider he/him/she/her to be pronouns.
I mean I kinda know what it is but I’m not gonna ask a chud to confirm. I think it’s these things:
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Confusion between very typical pronouns such as she/her with neopronouns like xi/xir.
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They’ve literally never been asked for their pronouns before so their minds can’t process the question. They only know that pronouns are those things that trans people use, so they have an immediate kneejerk reaction to reject the concept entirely without consideration.
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Confusion between the concept of pronouns and gender identity
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Misunderstanding of the concept of a pronoun mean something more like “identified pronoun”
I seriously hate these people so much by the way. Obstinant, stubborn transphobia is a fucking plague and I’m very pessimistic about the idea you can simply argue them out of their mindsets. They’re completely stuck because they want to be stuck, and they don’t even want to know what they’re mad about. May Allah have mercy on their eternal souls because I have very little sympathy for them
They’re just signalling their tribal allegiance. “Pronouns” is like a proper noun for “queer stuff”. They reject it. They’re not thinking about language or what words typically mean. It’s just “I don’t do or like queer stuff”.
This is exactly my thought about it too.
Chuds are not disagreeing with the language, they are just trying to virtue signal that they don’t want to play along with the cultural shift happening regarding usage of the language.
What they actually are saying: “I do not understand grammar, not just of English, but a basic function of essentially all natural language”
What they mean: “I refuse to declare pronouns. My pronouns are he/him, you can tell by looking at me because… come on… it’s obvious in my case, so don’t pretend like it isn’t and I resent people telling me to declare pronouns because I think it is cringe and a threat to my masculinity. Also neopronouns are weird and dumb.”
What would be funnier and more wholesome if they meant: “Chud Johnson have no pronouns. Chud think should be specific when speaking. Pronoun create ambiguity by obscuring the object or subject of sentence. Or pronoun add information into sentence that may be incorrect - like gender if gender is not known for certain, but assumed.”
I just looked up if there are any languages that lack pronouns entirely, and there apparently aren’t any. It’s one of the few universal language features. The closest is that some languages like Japanese, Spanish, and Italian are “pro-drop” which means sentences can be constructed with implied pronouns through things like conjugarion or participles, but don’t have to be outright used. Like “yo necisito” (I need) in Spanish can often simply be “necisito” (also I need) depending on context.
For my mental health I’m now gonna assume all anti-pronoun chuds are just silly confused Italians who aren’t quite used to English’s rigid pronoun necessity.
Oh sweet. I thought there were some obscure indigenous languages that didn’t use em, but wasn’t sure. Good to know!
Edit:
- looking into it a little more (https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns), looks like there is a reasonably strong argument that Japanese doesn’t use pronouns. Basically, pronouns in japanese are a subclass of nouns and arguably not a distinct part of speech. “School grammar” teaches that they are not distinct.
For instance, watashi (normally translated as “I”) really means something more like “an individual”. Also second person pronouns are considered rude, but the words used as second person “pronouns” are also just nouns that have over time taken on pronoun-like usage, but don’t mean “you”. So the pronouns Japanese has are kind of… not pronouns… and are ommitted in casual speech anyway (pro-drop)
- also, per https://wals.info/chapter/99 - Wichita & Wari’ lack any pronouns and Canela-Krahô lack any pronouns in the Object (but allow them for Subjects of transitive and intransitive verbs).
Slavic languages also often drop pronouns, when they play the role of subject and can be inferred from grammatical forms of verbs. Polish is especially prone to it.
Farsi has pronouns but they are not gendered. Everyone would have the same pronouns.
Farsi is a really pretty language and I have a piece of Farsi calligraphy at home spelling out my chosen non-binary name and a generic sort of Muslim blessing (I believe it’s Barak Allahu fik, may God bless you). I got it from a Shia Imam here back in 2017 when a socialist org I was with was doing protests and stuff against Trump’s Muslim ban. It was the first time I had anything written in my new name and I cherish it a lot.
Lacking pronouns entirely would have been a good feature for Tlhingan Hol (Klingon), since it’s supposed to have features that are very rare in Human languages. But in fact, it has a pretty normal set of pronouns, numbered but not gendered. Third-person pronouns also agree with noun-class (sentient/non-sentient/body-part, in Klingon, though unlike for plurals it lumps non-sentient and body part together for pronouns).
[none / use name]
I’d fully support removing it.its for opsec, no?
It is specifically not supposed to be for opsec, there was a whole struggle session about this years ago where people were arguing we shouldn’t mandate pronoun tags and I think at the time the account creator made you pick, but when we federated it went back to just having a default value.
I think we should have none/use name, but change the default to they/them to piss off transphobes, make people explicitly go in and change it to none/use name if they want that.
Choose wrong if you’re that scared of people actually knowing. Plenty of other options available.
tbh i would rather use they/them not because that’s what i use in real life but because that’s what’s most natural to me when referring to someone on the internet whose gender you don’t know. but if i pick that i feel like i’m stealing they/them valor so i went with none
12·13 days agoYou can just use it. If you want to just use it.
ⓘ 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘤𝘢𝘵. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘳.
I certainly can’t speak for everyone, but I think they/them is a great default and I have no issue with people using it online but not irl.
What is your problem with it IRL?
Huh? My only problem with it IRL is when I get gendered by people, especially the ones I’ve explicitly asked not to use other pronouns.
i read it as:
“i have no issue with [people who use they/them online while using other pronouns irl]”
When cis women get addressed with she/her but then you see a trans woman and remember you are doing are doing a post gender thing and then only address the trans woman as they/them, that can be invalidating. Or so I’ve been told.
Stealing valor is cool, though
not from oppressed ppl tho
I’m with you actually, because in practice people won’t only use proper nouns, they’ll just use they/them anyway.
they’ll just use they/them anyway
Hopefully, but still not often enough. Far too common to see people default to he/him still when they don’t know.
That also, which is even worse
Haha, well, I certainly fell into that one by being too focused on the cis people who won’t bother to select something beyond “the default”. I’d love it if it could be replaced by some capability to better define nounself and nameself pronouns. Just please give me 5 forms.
no use pronoun. cave man talk
me am invent pronoun ‘me’ like prometheus bring fire
me should be punish for hubris
28% of america is illiterate. If such a high number of people can barely read anything at all then it’s a given that a grammatical concept like “pronoun” or even just “noun” or “verb” are going to be completely unknown to them.
You have that huge number of illiterate people just making up bullshit because they can, they decide they don’t have pronouns because that’s what trans people have. Doesn’t matter if it’s correct or not, in their world it is anti trans. Then you have this huge portion of illiterate people also saying this to the literate people, they join in and create a social uniform that they all wear together. That social uniform is american cultural fascism as a whole, anti-wokeism. The correctness of the positions doesn’t matter at all, taking the position and wearing the uniform is what matters, all that put on the uniform are embraced.
it’s the same as white racists saying they don’t see color
Jeff hates the grammatical ambiguity caused by two antecedents with the same gender. Jeff will only allow Jeffself to be referred to by name.
I got warned once elsewhere for continually pointing out every pronoun someone used in a thread after they claimed not to use pronouns. Fun times.
idk what it is exactly, you can ask them questions like “So you’re fine with me using any pronouns I want for you?” I think on a fundamental level they’re too scared to question themselves or they’re unfulfilled and want someone to be angry at.
I don’t know if you can argue them out of it either, but I think most of them would quit being such a danger to our well being, as long as their own needs were met. It’s just something that will fade out with time because everyone will see there’s obviously no reason to be transphobic.
I think part of it too is that these people have never truly interacted with a trans person. All they know is memes and youtube comment sections. They’ve never been in a face to face situation with a trans person so they barely even know what they’re supposed to be bigoted against.
The Internet should be censored and regulated or something, or people who are regularly consuming bigoted content should be monitored or reeducated or something. Because it’s just eating their brains. Transphobia is the weirdest bigotry to have because it seems like most of them never even see a trans person, their bigotry is purely hypothetical situations in their own brains until they get so delusional they bring a gun to a school board meeting.
big *that they know of, of course. toupee fallacy and whatnot.
Yeah censorship is a scary proposition to lots of people and I get it, there just isn’t any way I can think of how to beat my opposition in the “marketplace of ideas”, not when I am so overwhelmingly outnumbered to such epic proportions, I would have to become a caricature of the transphobic stereotype, where we are secretly controlling the world, if I actually want to make changes.
That they’re contrarian little arseholes - they’re the type to turn into Asmon - nurglegold, if you tell them water contains fluorine.
“no, that can’t be me”
For example: Musk will twist himself into pretzels, in his transphobia, and rejects any basis of claims here and there
To the point he says shit like: “I’m not cis, you are”
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I think that a fair number of them are very repressed (sexuality and/or gender) and being confronted with something outside of the cishet norm causes them distress because those repressed thoughts are resurfaced. The thought of losing their entire community if they ever considered and explored those feelings in earning thus keeps them deeply in the closet. The anger and hate come in part from being forced to confront themselves in uncomfortable ways as well as seeing others living happily while not “following the rules”.
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Gender identity struggles can happen even for cis people. Look at the explosion of “alpha male” content over the past decade (maybe you don’t see this much in your life, though). Women are also bombarded with so many things telling them how to be the perfect woman. You’re a bit older than me but we both grew up in very different times with little to no gender diverse representation. For me, that meant always feeling a bit wrong with this role of “boy” or “man” that I was saddled with. I had a period where I went really hard into “masculine” hobbies and traits, suffered a lot, got burned out. I didn’t really get it until I started meeting queer/trans people and found myself intensifying intuitively with their struggles.
Gender dysphoria is like any other struggle with mental health: there are effective and ineffective treatments, people who say it doesn’t exist, those who call trans people dangerous to society, and so on. You don’t necessarily have to understand exactly what’s going on for us, just that we’re human and trying to live in a way they makes us happy in our bodies and minds. And it would not be all that difficult, really, if the media and government stopped giving transphobes that want to kill us so much undue credibility.
Because they view the pronouns associated with cis identity as natural and innate and not something you “have”. “Having pronouns” would mean that you have something different than those.
They’re just too illiterate to know what pronouns are. The only time the word “pronoun” has entered their mindspace is in relation to those evil, groomer trans people they keep hearing about on ONN.
They dont have any, I ate them.
ⓘ 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘤𝘢𝘵. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘴𝘶𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘰𝘳.
Puking up a hairball full of pronouns all over a fascist’s front porch
