The solution is to recognize that this electoral system is a complete failure and acknowledge that it must be completely done away with in favor of something that works
“yeah man the system is completely broken, which is why I choose to perpetuate it. It’s actually a super easy choice, I’m very smart for legitimising this system that I know is broken”
“I fully acknowledge that what I’m doing doesn’t actually affect anything, but I’m still going to shame you for not also doing it.” This is either cognitive dissonance or lying, which is it? Personally I think you’re just lying about acknowledging that the system is broken, because if you did acknowledge that you wouldn’t be so smug about endorsing that system.
I just got told something that people that are also voting are also doing, and they’re pretending like they are doing something revolutionary by doing those things while refusing to vote lol.
You guys are acting like leaving tools on the table is somehow going to get the job done faster.
What tool? The tool is a gun that points its barrel back at the wielder. Hell, you epitomize that tool-- useless save only as an art piece dedicated to the abject rot of the West.
I’m going to do nothing, which is the same thing you’re doing, except i’m not jerking myself into a frenzied orgasm over how good it is i VOTED for the LESSER EVIL
If there weren’t so many blue maga morons like you who literally will support the DNC no matter what the democrats might have to actually, idk, change what they’re doing, but you’re too much of a fucking brainlet child to understand that your vote legitimizes their politics and actions
I literally don’t understand how you can go through more than a single cycle of “vote for the lesser evil or things will get worse” where things get worse anyway without picking up some kind of fucking clue about this
Well the important thing is you managed to find a way to convince yourself that your laziness and apathy actually makes you better than people who are putting effort in.
Oh my god yes voting for the shambling corpse of a neoliberal lich who has presided over America getting worse every moment of his presidency is really PUTTING EFFORT IN 🙄🙄🙄
Good job liberal thank you for electing Hindenburg you’ve saved Germany!!
you managed to find a way to convince yourself
Literally the most ironic statement ever made lmfao like christ, please develop the ability to self reflect at some point in your life
Also since we both agree your vote is pointless, you aren’t doing anything either, so presenting this as if you’re coming from a position of action is both ridiculous and hilarious.
Anyway I definitely haven’t done any sabotage. I also haven’t redistributed food to the houseless nor have I helped unionize a workplace or other stuff. I most certainly haven’t organised with other leftists and done local stuff, most certainly not.
So to truly understand that this electoral system is a complete failure is to do nothing? Or is there an alternative I can do that you haven’t mentioned yet? I have seen a lot of people argue against voting like this “because it’s worthless” or “because it supports genocide” while I have yet to see anyone propose something to do that is more actionable or directly effective than voting.
It is better than voting because you will help create the world in which we no longer have to choose between red or blue genocide, and more importantly no longer need to hash these dumb online arguments every 2 years
Here’s my plan, and I’ll even tell you without being a
Abandon electoralism as the primary method of achieving anything, its become blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that things will not improve under our current system and wasting time trying to get people elected will not help anyone
Next is to establish a network of interconnected mutal aid groups, to provide to the people all that they need and deserve. The government has shown it doesn’t care about maintaining any actual infrastructure or protecting the vulnerable which leads to my third point
We need a vanguard, both to protect the people who need it and to punish those who would oppose our work. They would be armed and trained and held to a higher standard than our enemies
With the support network and vanguard in place, we can spread our message and gather support up, it won’t be easy but it will be better than sitting on our hands and having a heart attack every four years for the rest of our lives
I was half expecting them to come back with something like “That’s unfeasible” or “Good luck fighting the army” or one of the countless other wet farts they always squeeze out
The thing to learn is that there’s no hope to be found in the ‘democratic’ system that’s in place. It’s going to get worse, not because we didn’t vote for the genocidal fascist with the exact same policies as the other uncouth genocidal fascist, but because of more fundamental forces are going to continue to play out either way. It’s about getting past that step in ‘what should I do’ to the next one.
You can struggle with yourself over the premise but once you acknowledge it’s true, you have to pick yourself up and move on to planning for the future we’re stuck with and how to connect that end with the future we all deserve.
Help my community as best I can by volunteering and hopefully organizing, vote on select local issues, and donating to try and negate the damage your guy 99% Hitler does
What’re you gonna do besides whine at leftists and vote blue on everything?
There are literal books filled with thoughts on how to approach electoral participation that you could read if you earnestly cared. Parenti covers it, Marx covers it in Kapital, Lenin covers it in State and Revolution, and that’s just the basics
Ahh so you’re going to do all the same shit that millions of the “vote blue” people you so casually dismiss are already doing, while also making it easier for trump to get into office and make things worse, faster.
“vote blue” ppl are probably not volunteering and organizing in anything meaningful. campaigning for a fascist corpse so he can defeat the more lively fascist is not meaningful.
democrats are identical to republicans on immigration, healthcare, wage stagnation, and tax breaks for the wealthy. and their inaction on abortion, the dismantling of LGBT rights, and climate change make them effectively no different from republicans on this. so what makes them better?
im not voting for someone who entered politics as a segregationist and hasnt demonstrated meaningful change in that position. someone who is “personally opposed” to abortion. someone who allowed the right to take away our rights while he was the head of state/government
if we vote for biden it sends the message that we are okay with what is happening, what he is allowing to happen. even if biden said he would fight for Medicare for all and a $15 min wage, why should i believe him? what has he kept his promise on? i can name one promise he kept: nothing will fundamentally change. except that was only a half-truth bc it actually got worse
So, what do you do? You go to work and do your job and don’t make waves like a good serf, vote for m’lord every 2-4 years, donate to an NGO run by some billionaire’s failchild making $250k a year as they spend 90% of donations on admin? Sneer at homeless people, why can’t they just get a job and pay rent like everybody else? Volunteer once a year, probably between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and say “well I’ve done my part for this disgusting poors!”
And then you and your family die in a wet bulb event because the power grid couldn’t handle it. Or you catch the next pandemic virus and are unable to work, so you end up panhandling on the street, and the cops who you support and who your guy gave a ton of money and military equipment to beat the shit out of you for fun, leaving you to die, alone in an alley.
Anyway, keep doing what you’re doing! The billionaires will surely solve this!
Don’t forget being a smug, wrong pedant on a niche leftist forum lmao
On reddit, the performative idiots like this tended to explain themselves by saying they were making a point that was directed less at their target of condescension and more to any prospective readers
Who is gonna read this besides lemmee denizens and hexbear users, all of whom firmly made up their minds years ago in all likelihood?
I don’t know any “vote blue” people who do this kind of stuff. If they do anything it’s show up for one large protest, co-opt it, and then shame people for fighting back against the inevitable police violence.
Hey now, they’ll also vote for the midterms. Maybe even knock some doors for Joe, you know really entrench him as the only viable option. That’s like 4 full days at least
Seems we’re at an impasse of “yu-huh” and “nu-uh”, so I’ll give some leeway.
Sorry you’re right! Voting can change things for the worse.
Anyway this is from 1972
Voting for “the lesser evil” has now brought us to a place where there isn’t one. It has never worked.
We didn’t win any of the labour rights we have by voting. We didn’t abolish slavery by voting. We didn’t get civil rights by voting. We didnt even get the right to vote by voting!
And?
Are you actually learning something from any of this?
Or are you one of those people who will sit around, vote for the lesser evil and then go
when the lesser evil continues to be evil?
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The solution is to recognize that this electoral system is a complete failure and acknowledge that it must be completely done away with in favor of something that works
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the american has fallen in love with the system that oppresses them
Jfc how incredibly brainless, keep smashing your dick in the dick smashing machine while hoping that maybe it’ll stop smashing dicks someday
lol
You acknowledge that your vote is performative and yet still chose to vote for genocide?
New site tagine 👆
“yeah man the system is completely broken, which is why I choose to perpetuate it. It’s actually a super easy choice, I’m very smart for legitimising this system that I know is broken”
damn right, the only way to stop Hitler is to vote for Hindenburg, the lesser evil
“I fully acknowledge that what I’m doing doesn’t actually affect anything, but I’m still going to shame you for not also doing it.” This is either cognitive dissonance or lying, which is it? Personally I think you’re just lying about acknowledging that the system is broken, because if you did acknowledge that you wouldn’t be so smug about endorsing that system.
Genocide denier.
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A real "I don’t see YOU firebombing a walmart
" kinda take
What a meaningless reply lol
If you tell someone that what they’re doing is pointless, you ought to be prepared to suggest a better course of action.
What a meaningless reply lol
I like how you act as if no action can be valid other than
, I mean you got told here and just acted like a fool whilst acting smug.
I just got told something that people that are also voting are also doing, and they’re pretending like they are doing something revolutionary by doing those things while refusing to vote lol.
You guys are acting like leaving tools on the table is somehow going to get the job done faster.
Utterly fucking delusional lol
Have fun endorsing a genocide, you intolerably smug electoral fetishist
The best way to push the dems left is letting them lose, otherwise they will continue to sprint to the right.
What tool? The tool is a gun that points its barrel back at the wielder. Hell, you epitomize that tool-- useless save only as an art piece dedicated to the abject rot of the West.
I’m going to do nothing, which is the same thing you’re doing, except i’m not jerking myself into a frenzied orgasm over how good it is i VOTED for the LESSER EVIL
If there weren’t so many blue maga morons like you who literally will support the DNC no matter what the democrats might have to actually, idk, change what they’re doing, but you’re too much of a fucking brainlet child to understand that your vote legitimizes their politics and actions
I literally don’t understand how you can go through more than a single cycle of “vote for the lesser evil or things will get worse” where things get worse anyway without picking up some kind of fucking clue about this
Well the important thing is you managed to find a way to convince yourself that your laziness and apathy actually makes you better than people who are putting effort in.
Truly, you have this all figured out.
Well-spent political effort is when you wait in line to write “continue genocide” on a sacred piece of paper.;
Hnnnngggg i’ve hnnnnmmmm put in so much hnfffff EFFORT
Oh my god yes voting for the shambling corpse of a neoliberal lich who has presided over America getting worse every moment of his presidency is really PUTTING EFFORT IN 🙄🙄🙄
Good job liberal thank you for electing Hindenburg you’ve saved Germany!!
Literally the most ironic statement ever made lmfao
like christ, please develop the ability to self reflect at some point in your life
This is unfair.
The country also got worse for the 8 years he was vice president. You’re erasing a large part of his legacy.
This is unfair.
The country also got worse for the 36 years he was senator. You’re erasing a large part of his legacy.
No the important thing is that they don’t vote for genocide
Taking an hour out of your day to fill out a sheet of paper is not effort.
Genocidal scum
Also since we both agree your vote is pointless, you aren’t doing anything either, so presenting this as if you’re coming from a position of action is both ridiculous and hilarious.
Anyway I definitely haven’t done any sabotage. I also haven’t redistributed food to the houseless nor have I helped unionize a workplace or other stuff. I most certainly haven’t organised with other leftists and done local stuff, most certainly not.
.ee with a bad take and digging in
So typical
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Sure, but if you truly understood it you would realize that voting for Biden is exactly as useful as sitting right where you are.
So to truly understand that this electoral system is a complete failure is to do nothing? Or is there an alternative I can do that you haven’t mentioned yet? I have seen a lot of people argue against voting like this “because it’s worthless” or “because it supports genocide” while I have yet to see anyone propose something to do that is more actionable or directly effective than voting.
Better than voting would be to join a communist party and work towards dual power, especially in your workplaces/unions
I don’t see how that’s “better than voting.” Why are the two things worth comparing? Why can’t I do both? What makes voting inherently bad?
Voting for a genocide means that you are perfectly fine with getting your turn in the ovens later on.
It is better than voting because you will help create the world in which we no longer have to choose between red or blue genocide, and more importantly no longer need to hash these dumb online arguments every 2 years
You could do both. The thing to recognize is that voting is nothing. Nothing is accomplished by voting.
Here’s my plan, and I’ll even tell you without being a
Abandon electoralism as the primary method of achieving anything, its become blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that things will not improve under our current system and wasting time trying to get people elected will not help anyone
Next is to establish a network of interconnected mutal aid groups, to provide to the people all that they need and deserve. The government has shown it doesn’t care about maintaining any actual infrastructure or protecting the vulnerable which leads to my third point
We need a vanguard, both to protect the people who need it and to punish those who would oppose our work. They would be armed and trained and held to a higher standard than our enemies
With the support network and vanguard in place, we can spread our message and gather support up, it won’t be easy but it will be better than sitting on our hands and having a heart attack every four years for the rest of our lives
Crickets lol
I was half expecting them to come back with something like “That’s unfeasible” or “Good luck fighting the army” or one of the countless other
wet farts they always squeeze out
literally leninism
it doesnt even need to be violent if they werent so keen to fight back with violence
The thing to learn is that there’s no hope to be found in the ‘democratic’ system that’s in place. It’s going to get worse, not because we didn’t vote for the genocidal fascist with the exact same policies as the other uncouth genocidal fascist, but because of more fundamental forces are going to continue to play out either way. It’s about getting past that step in ‘what should I do’ to the next one.
You can struggle with yourself over the premise but once you acknowledge it’s true, you have to pick yourself up and move on to planning for the future we’re stuck with and how to connect that end with the future we all deserve.
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Help my community as best I can by volunteering and hopefully organizing, vote on select local issues, and donating to try and negate the damage your guy 99% Hitler does
What’re you gonna do besides whine at leftists and vote blue on everything?
There are literal books filled with thoughts on how to approach electoral participation that you could read if you earnestly cared. Parenti covers it, Marx covers it in Kapital, Lenin covers it in State and Revolution, and that’s just the basics
Ahh so you’re going to do all the same shit that millions of the “vote blue” people you so casually dismiss are already doing, while also making it easier for trump to get into office and make things worse, faster.
About the answer I expected lol
“vote blue” ppl are probably not volunteering and organizing in anything meaningful. campaigning for a fascist corpse so he can defeat the more lively fascist is not meaningful.
democrats are identical to republicans on immigration, healthcare, wage stagnation, and tax breaks for the wealthy. and their inaction on abortion, the dismantling of LGBT rights, and climate change make them effectively no different from republicans on this. so what makes them better?
im not voting for someone who entered politics as a segregationist and hasnt demonstrated meaningful change in that position. someone who is “personally opposed” to abortion. someone who allowed the right to take away our rights while he was the head of state/government
if we vote for biden it sends the message that we are okay with what is happening, what he is allowing to happen. even if biden said he would fight for Medicare for all and a $15 min wage, why should i believe him? what has he kept his promise on? i can name one promise he kept: nothing will fundamentally change. except that was only a half-truth bc it actually got worse
I forgot how voting against an anti abortion amendment in my state is the same as voting for genocide Joe.
If you’d actually read any theory, you’d have noticed the nuance present regarding electoralism.
So smug, wrong, and unwilling to change or read more than two sentences; you came to reinforce your own views and will leave none the wiser.
So, what do you do? You go to work and do your job and don’t make waves like a good serf, vote for m’lord every 2-4 years, donate to an NGO run by some billionaire’s failchild making $250k a year as they spend 90% of donations on admin? Sneer at homeless people, why can’t they just get a job and pay rent like everybody else? Volunteer once a year, probably between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and say “well I’ve done my part for this disgusting poors!”
And then you and your family die in a wet bulb event because the power grid couldn’t handle it. Or you catch the next pandemic virus and are unable to work, so you end up panhandling on the street, and the cops who you support and who your guy gave a ton of money and military equipment to beat the shit out of you for fun, leaving you to die, alone in an alley.
Anyway, keep doing what you’re doing! The billionaires will surely solve this!
Don’t forget being a smug, wrong pedant on a niche leftist forum lmao
On reddit, the performative idiots like this tended to explain themselves by saying they were making a point that was directed less at their target of condescension and more to any prospective readers
Who is gonna read this besides lemmee denizens and hexbear users, all of whom firmly made up their minds years ago in all likelihood?
They’re just here to be an aggro dickhead
It’s practice mode for debating these fools IRL or more public online spaces.
I don’t know any “vote blue” people who do this kind of stuff. If they do anything it’s show up for one large protest, co-opt it, and then shame people for fighting back against the inevitable police violence.
“I’m doing my part!”
[Gives $20 to Human Rights Campaign]
OK, so I will take your argument and go spend 30 minutes to an hour to go fill in some bubbles at my local voting site.
Great, now what are YOU doing in the other 364 days?
Hey now, they’ll also vote for the midterms. Maybe even knock some doors for Joe, you know really entrench him as the only viable option. That’s like 4 full days at least
Well it’s not gonna fucking change by not voting.
And it’s also not gonna change by voting
Yes it can.
Seems we’re at an impasse of “yu-huh” and “nu-uh”, so I’ll give some leeway.
Sorry you’re right! Voting can change things for the worse.
Anyway this is from 1972
Voting for “the lesser evil” has now brought us to a place where there isn’t one. It has never worked.
We didn’t win any of the labour rights we have by voting. We didn’t abolish slavery by voting. We didn’t get civil rights by voting. We didnt even get the right to vote by voting!
And Santa might be real