- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- nottheonion@lemmy.ml
A couple were told they faced a $200,000 (£146,500) medical bill when their baby was born prematurely in the US, despite them having travel insurance which covered her pregnancy.
You must log in or # to comment.
I love the 'Achually, you are supposed to beg the hospitals and rely on your insurance shady deals." Comments in this thread.
Just so we are clear, you know the US is the only country with running water that also charges it’s citizens to remain alive, right?
This is NOT normal. Not the amount, the situation.
This is what’s so fucked up about being an American. Every time there’s a complaint about the system, some “good soul” comes out to explain how you avoid it.
Healthcare is expensive? Oh you have to negotiate with your doctors, your hospital, your insurance, and get it fixed.
Internet is too expensive? Oh you’re supposed to call them every few months to have them lower the prices by threatening to quit.
Oh, fast food is too expensive? Oh use the mobile app and take a picture of your butthole to get it back to normal!
Listen, I think we’re as barbaric about this as any reasonable person, but we really aren’t unique. Mexico, Egypt, and the Philippines aren’t doing so great, but they’re all modern nations with modern infrastructure in their urban areas. India has even worse health insurance than the US and while yes they’re still building out their plumbing systems, Mumbai and New Delhi are modern megapolises.
LOL not unique! Where exactly do you think the US stands when comparing their nominal GDP per capita with Mexico, Egypt, the Phillipines, Mumbai or Dehli?
US: #9 out of 193
Mexico… 71. Egypt… 134. Phillipines… 126. India… 140
Why don’t you take a look at the healthcare systems of the countries in the top 10 GDP per capita and make an actual apples to apples comparison, hm?
Yes, we’re a profoundly broken country in how we use our wealth. But you were over here acting like no other country that isnt entirely and devastatingly impoverished is failing it’s citizens this way, and I’m pointing out that no, once again we fall in line with developing nations rather than developed ones. And for those of us who wish for it to be a functional country, I think my framing is much more useful.
And i apologize for assuming you’re a European who knows nothing of anywhere beyond the Eurosphere and assumes developing nations don’t even have running water.
I’m saying it’s ridiculous, stupid and confusing to say “we aren’t unique”. The US is in the top 10 in GDP per capita but is ranked in the lower 50 when it comes to Healthcare.
But “we aren’t unique”.
American exceptionalism, unless its about taking responsibility I guess. Lmao
Travel insurance is a scam. I used to pay Allianz for cancellation insurance every trip but the one time I needed to claim it they denied it.
It’s not safe to travel to the US while pregnant or sick, they will take everything from you.
It’s just not safe to travel there ever
I’m certainly not going back until at least 2029. Let MAGA eat itself over the Epstein files and the next president reform the gun laws (as both sides are now talking about it) and then I’ll think about it.
It’s not safe to travel to the US while pregnant or sick, they will take everything from you.
Until Trump they also claimed the baby as US citizen which is dangerous because they demand taxes from their citizens whereever they are on this world.
Traveling in 3rd trimester is already medically dangerous.
Everyone knows blood attracts sharks, now we have sharks on planes.
Thanks obama.
It sounds fake but its real. If they got a car and ran a baby over they’d have paid 1% of this. Our system is so deeply fucked up.
Lol, even better. Usa credit cant hurt them abroad. They can just never pay it.
Usa: dear tourists, the old have a baby in usa trick will also be tarrrifed and taxed.
UK tourists: how u gonna do that?
Usa: evil grin
$200k? did the hospital make the baby?
Sadly that’s low for some cases of births. I’ve heard of people being charged >$1M before insurance (so that number might be BS insurance negotiations, but still)
if that happened in my country I’d cut my dick off just in case
Just out of interest: Would U.S.-Americans be allowed to found a non-profit health insurance organization?
Allowed to, sure. But it would quickly be crushed by the companies that have way more resources to draw on…
Yeah the better option is for a multi state compact for a public option. I know Washington has a bit of a public option. That said, you get no subsidies if your employer offers minimum contributions to the health insurance of their choosing.
Edit to finish the thought: we need universal single payer, but barring that we need public options and real choice, including choice over where to apply our employer’s contributions. It wouldn’t fix everything that universal single payer would, but it would enable you to have the freedom to not need to change doctors every time you get a new job.
Allowed? Technically yes, in the same way people are allowed to start local broadband co-ops or like grocery stores or whatever else.
The problem comes when you have to actually make people aware you exist and have a service or product for sale, and “compete” with the national/multi-national corporation who have infinitely more resources than you do.Just look at how Walmart and now Amazon have put just about every mom and pop shop out of business. They can move in, drop prices so low locally long enough to put you out of business because they have other areas locked down already and covering the losses. Then once they have the market locked up they can charge whatever they want because you have no other options.
Almost certainly there already exists a non-profit health insurance organization, they just don’t have the resources to advertise on all the major channels and across the interwebs like all the predatory ones do.
Oh wow and people wonder why people aren’t having kids…
If you paid protection money to another gangster but then they didn’t protect you what would likely happen?
The gangster apologizes and deeply regrets the situation but does not return your money.
Sylvester explained: “Essentially what they said is that we would have been covered had the baby not survived. But the fact was that the baby survived.”
“We weren’t going to be covered for that, because we didn’t put his name on the insurance policy.”
JFC
I mean not if you go to those not really a hospital “clinic” things they have then its like $12k.I know people doing that.
I’m guessing if something goes wrong at one of those then you’re royally fucked though.
Plus a lot of people aren’t vaccinating their babies now so no need for the hospital. I know these people.
I hate Americans.
🤦♂️
Do not travel to the US
why would you go there??? this couple was asking for it
Did you see how they were dressed my god
If i take a boat and sail to a known cannibal island, where people like me have gone and been eaten before, and I then get eaten, there’s no one to blame but me. The US is simply not a good place to travel to at this time. It would have been even more hell for them if they had to over stay their visa.
It would have been even more hell for them if they had to over stay their visa.
I mean, they may have got a free
beatingplane ticket home.The baby though, that’s a natural born US citizen. That’s staying here.
The problem in this story wasn’t actually the US this time, it was the Swiss insurance company.
I would say the problem also was a very high medical bill of $ 200k.
Yes. You’re right. Our healthcare system is absolutely bonkers bananas insane, and that’s before you calculate in the cruelty. And as US citizen, I strongly advise everyone who isn’t to avoid this country like the plague.
However, if I travel to Switzerland or Canada or Italy or wherever, as a tourist, I am not covered if I go in the hospital. I still need to carry travel insurance, and if I don’t, or if it doesn’t cover something, then those countries with their modern, sensible healthcare systems will charge me out of pocket, just like an American hospital. The difference is that in America, even the citizens aren’t covered by default, and the amounts are astronomical compared to other countries.
It’s a shitty system all around, and frankly, I genuinely believe that if it weren’t for America’s weird fetish for as much money as you can possibly choke on, we would probably have started building an actual universal healthcare system for the global community, so that you’re covered by default even when traveling. But like with most things, the right wing nonsense has held us so far back that that is so unlikely as to seem utterly impossible
Yes if you come here to Danmark from the US you will not be covered. But if you are from a country in the EU you will in most cases be covered and don’t have to pay anything for being hospitalized.
Even if you do have to pay something, the cost Ive seen people post in europe are in the hundreds/thousands, not hundreds of thousands like the US.
Maybe this couple woukd have gotten a $200/2000 bill in the EU for a birth? $200,000 is a purely US problem.
Yeah do people actually pay in that price range for health care in the US? If so then thats absolutely bonkers
It’s complicated, because it’s American healthcare.
The hospital charges $200k. The insurance agrees to pay a negotiated discounted rate of $100k. $75k goes to the various insurance plans of the doctors and hospital. $15k goes to the people providing care and materials costs (everything is itemized, so then $50 aspirin you see is because it includes the time of the pharmacy tech who got the order, entered it into the system and checked for interactions, the tech who filled the order, the pharmacist who had to sign off on it, and the nurse who carried it to the patient.). $10k goes to the hospital as profit.
The insurance then makes the patient pay their $5000 deductible, which is what you pay before the insurance you pay for pays for anything, then the patient pays their $2500 coinsurance, which is what you pay after the insurance you pay for starts to pay for things but they only pay for half. After that the insurance covers it. The “perk” is that having met your deductible and coinsurance costs you likely have to pay little or nothing for care for the rest of the calendar year, making January to most financially responsible time to have a medical emergency.In terms of actual “cost”, I think the biggest difference is the itemization of everything. Universal healthcare is intrinsically more cost efficient, but it still has to pay doctors and nurses. When that cost is viewed as part of the cost of running a hospital as opposed to part of the service “charged” to the patient it can bring the “list price” down a lot. You end up with the price of a broken arm being the cost to treat a broken arm, not then cost to treat a broken arm and have everyone involved show up and your share of building the hospital room, and the cost of the janitor cleaning the room.
NICUs are capital and professional labor intensive. I got to meet the team of doctors and nurses who kept my son alive and thriving for the three months between birth and due date. Idk what the magic number to care for him should have been, but I don’t think six figures is an unfair estimate in any socio-economic system.
The question after that is “Who paid for it?” And, in my case, it was Medicaid, which was a huge relief. These poor bastards clearly didn’t have the option.
Why it’s so capital intensive is another issue, but the matter of six figures being reasonable is to compare that to costs of similar treatments in other countries (usually it’s an order of magnitude more expensive).
Healthcare just can’t be free market bcs the demand side cannot be free by definition.
A big part of that is that other countries view to medical staff as a fixed cost. They’re not reflected in the “bill”, much like how you don’t get billed by the fire department. They’re simply paid to be there, and costs for treatment are more reflective of the cost of the treatment.
Was likely 2 hours a day actual attended care, 1000 a day, 90k for 3 months, plus rent, food, materials, another 500 a day. That’s $135-155k even with conservative care in nicu. In a real nicu that would be 10x
My nephew was also in the nicu for three months, and he cost a million dollars. Also picked up by Medicaid. As much as I hate the US Healthcare system, I will be forever grateful to the united states of America for providing life to my nephew when in any other time or situation he would have just died immediately. He is and continues to be a miracle, a very special, bright boy who just scored a goal for his soccer team this weekend for the first time.
If I’m going to be paying $200,000 for medical procedures then they better be replacing my liver or something. How could a pregnancy possibly cost that much money?
They probably asked 6 grand just for pulling out a splinter.
They were performing there, it’s work .
I don’t see how this is the US’ fault. Their insurance, who initially denied them, is with a Zurich company. Do they expect any country they visit to cover them medically?
Maybe I’ll pop over to Berlin if I ever get cancer. Surely they’ll pay for all my treatments even though I’m just a tourist. They aren’t barbarians like the US.
I’m fairly sure in Berlin they won’t charge you two hundred thousand fucking dollars for an emergency procedure, but sure, go on strawmanning. What the hell.
deleted by creator
Sorry to burst your bubble of USA-hatred but nope. Germany will not decline to treat you but they will bill you. Oh wait… that’s exactly what happened in the US! This was not just an emergency procedure but 3 weeks in the ICU.
This couple’s insurance ultimately decided to pay. So this is a total non story. It would have happened the same in a million places. Tourists do not get major services for free. If they did, people from around the world be showing up with conditions and just reporting straight to the ER and then hop skipping home.
This story was drummed up to tap into people hating on the US for its poor healthcare system. Which is usually valid. But if we judge by whether tourists get free major services, the US isn’t any worse off.
The costs are not comparable, otherwise or healthcare systems would all be bankrupt. And here we don’t have the same incentives to inflate costs.
Yes the costs would be different. Perhaps 100,000€ instead of $200,000. The fact remains tourists don’t get free healthcare anywhere.
This is a complete nothingburger of a story. The couple got treatment. Their insurance was billed, exactly as it would have been if they’d been in Canada or Portugal.
Their insurance momentarily denied to cover them. Why aren’t we mad at them? Because this clickbait story was created to stoke a pre-existing “America sucks” narrative and get outrage clicks.
And they seem to have played everyone here perfectly.
Maybe they denied to cover them because of the ridiculously high bill, have you ever thought about that?
Edit: It seems the cost of a normal birth in Germany is at most €7500 for a tourist with no insurance.
Helllllo the baby was 7 weeks premature and in intensive care for 3 weeks. The cost of a normal birth is totally irrelevant. You didn’t read the article, obviously.
I paid literally zero for either of my kids births right here in California.
Their baby was born in an American hospital seven weeks early, but the couple said Zurich Insurance Group refused to uphold the policy and cover their costs because the baby was not named in the document.
After a nine month legal battle, Zurich has reversed its decision and told the BBC it was sorry for the stress caused.
The unborn child that isn’t allowed to have a name yet needs to be named in the document.
You can just imagine whoever made that decision letting out an evil laugh.
The legal proceedings had more time to mature than the baby lol
Sylvester said the couple “made 100% sure Issy was insured to be pregnant, and any complications involving pregnancy whilst we were abroad were covered”.
Sylvester explained: “Essentially what they said is that we would have been covered had the baby not survived. But the fact was that the baby survived.”
“We weren’t going to be covered for that, because we didn’t put his name on the insurance policy.”
As someone that wouldn’t choose to travel into or through the United States, I can’t say I would be surprised if I got back home after this ordeal and the medical bills started showing up. US healthcare will charge for anything under the sun. I half expect visitors will be sent invoices for travelling in the vicinity of a hospital in the near future.
The insurance on question is not American, but from their home country. The ridiculous price is American though
I realise that, my connecting thought was that the hospital looking at their insurance policy should have been able to understand the pregnancy was covered. Even with it being unclear due to the contract’s wording, it should have triggered the billing department contacting the insurer for clarification.
That’s not how America works though, they operate on a ‘invoice first, ask questions later’ approach. If one in a thousand bills get paid without question, the superfluousness is considered justified. Oh well, I would add this to my list of reasons to avoid the country if it weren’t so long already.
You seem confused.
As someone who has worked directly with medical (dental) insurance, the billing hospital/doctor almost definitely sent the bill to the insurance company first, were denied the claim, and then sent it to the couple afterwards.
You seem to think the hospital told them they weren’t covered, but that isn’t what happened. At least not in this article. They thought it was covered and dealt with until returning to the UK, where the insurer told them they weren’t covered.
You aren’t the only one whose work has involved medical insurance.
From my experience, it was quite uncommon for the practitioner themselves to be preparing and sending an invoice to the insurance company. Typically they would pass this off to the billing department, though in smaller places like a dental office I’ve seen the ‘billing department’ just be the front desk. It’s a touch misleading to equate the billing hospital with the doctor as if penning invoices is a shared responsibility between the two with each taking roughly equal part.
In any case, it’s irrelevant. I’m not here arguing minutia about on which continent the responsibility specifically failed, nor whatever individual made an error. The system failed these people, even if the end result was only a momentary heart rate increase from seeing a medical bill until a phone call resolved the issue.
If my underlying point remains unclear, I doubt I can clarify further.
…right, you still seem confused about what is being said, since the first half of your reply is just… stating that the practitioner themselves usually don’t directly send the bill, the billing department does.
I guess I could see how you could misconstrue that from what I said, but it doesn’t really address the crux of who was at fault here: the insurance company.
The system failed these people? Uh… sure… the American health care system is hot dog ass and insurance is bullshit. I agree, the system sucks.
My only point here is that your comment directly makes it out to be the US/hospitals fault.
But! That being said! I see where the confusion is, now.
I realise that, my connecting thought was that the hospital looking at their insurance policy should have been able to understand the pregnancy was covered.
You presumably meant to say “the pregnancy wasn’t covered”. Because of this typo, it made me think you were saying that it WAS covered and that the hospital made a mistake when reading.
Also:
You aren’t the only one whose work has involved medical insurance
To be fair, when you say “I wouldn’t choose to live or travel through the US”, it makes it pretty fair to assume you aren’t already there. If you are out of the states, I have no idea how your experiences with a different healthcare system could be relevant? But hey, maybe you should lead with relevant information about why your input has more weight behind it than the average commenter.
That being said… it still doesn’t. You spent half your comment acting like I was being misleading because I said “the billing doctor/hospital sent it to the insurance company”, when any reasonable person would extrapolate that obviously the staff is responsible for that? I said billing doctor because the hospital sends the bill in the doctor’s name. They might not be literally penning the bill, but they are the biller, they are doing the billing.
Edit: also, insurance companies are mostly all closed on weekends and you can’t just “call to confirm the policy” in every situation.
I don’t make it a habit to preface a general comment by preemptively stating why I may be qualified to weigh in on a topic. This is the internet after all, not really a formal setting. My qualifications are just as irrelevant as yours here. While we may have insight that others lack, we aren’t doing anything but commenting on an article.
Without going point for point as you have done, it should suffice to say that even now after I have reread this thread and what I wrote previously, the underpinning of my initial comment stands - these people were failed, and it shouldn’t have happened.
And yet you still have the opportunity to chime in about how you have televant qualifications, and you haven’t.
Yes, like I said, we already agree that the system is bad. They were failed directly by the insurance company in this case, and there is pretty much nothing additional you could reasonably have expected from a hospital in an emergency situation like a premature birth.
Your original comment put the blame at the hospital’s feet, not the insurance company’s feet. When called out, you justified it by saying “the whole system was wrong, I’m not here to argue minutia”.
Indeed, you are here to force out a point, backtrack and move goalposts when called out, and act as if your messaging has an underlying “the system is bad” message, when you could have just said “yeah, the insurance company sucks in this case. Whole system is bad.”
These people were failed (directly by the insurance company), and it shouldn’t have happened.
Insufferable. Just learn to back down when you misspeak instead of getting defensive.
I have both a heathcare insurance and because my hobby is reenacting (ie, travel with really expensive things and doing dumb things like sleep under a hedge for 2 days) a very good travel insurance which includes healthcare abroad.
Both go out of their way to point out I have coverage in the entire world except the USA and active warzones.
You sound like stealth camping extraordinaire Steve Wallis.
It’s quite funny to think ‘expensive thing’ could be just anything, like an orchestral harp or some of them jewels from the Louvre, and you’re just hanging out under a hedge with a copy of your insurance policy as a pillow haha.
Oh, no, nothing that ornate. Just like, a historically accurate coat is expeeeeensive if you have to buy one. Mostly because it’s handspun wool, handdyed and handwoven into a handsewn fabric.
Like, a meter of historically accurate linen can run over a hundred euros easily. In fact, I’d buy it right now if it’s that cheap.
It doesn’t get much better for other items. Of course, most of those are handmade by people who aren’t charging for it, or trade for it. But if I lost my whole suitcase, it’s probably going to cost 10k to replace at least. And that’s not counting the armor.
And that’s not counting the armor.
Are you a time travelling hedge knight?
What is it you’re getting up to that you could have a suitcase full of historically accurate clothing in any place outside a museum? Only thing that comes to my mind is renaissance festivals or similar, but I wouldn’t have thought accuracy was taken that seriously.
Historic reenactment.
It’s basically people doing things like they were done in the past, sometimes to the level of “hello visitors, let me explain stuff while in period clothing” to “completely recreating a medieval military campaign from underpants to anything-stew, excluding dying from a minor infection”.
But it also includes period crafts, so weaving your own fabric, etc.
That’s quite interesting. It reminds me of a group of people that are building a castle using period correct construction and material gathering techniques. I saw a Tom Scott video about it, I think they started in the 90’s or something.
Very cool to hear about. I’m glad people do these things, even if it’s sort of the first I’m learning of it. I’ll keep an eye out for such events in my area in the future. Thanks!
Give them the address of your hotel in the US.
They’ll be happy to charge you for all mail forwarded to your home country, any costs incurred, and a little handling charge at the hotel. No extra effort needed, they already have your credit card and photo id.
Why would they have your credit card?
After a nine month legal battle, Zurich has reversed its decision and told the BBC it was sorry for the stress caused.
Yeah, very sorry I’m sure. Oopsie, we accidentally fought a nine month legal battle to avoid paying out the exact thing the insurance is for
“We’ve now strengthened and clarified our wording and guidance so other families travelling abroad at this stage of a pregnancy do not have to go through this experience.”
TLDR: the next couple is fucked
No, what this means is that they have increased premiums for anyone at 33 weeks of pregnancy and added something about premature births that will cost more if you’re traveling to America. Either that or put in specific language excluding coverage for premature births. Either way, insurance companies are a scam.
Like ‘hey, your baby is not covered, it’s 43 minutes under due’
Arguing the care wasn’t covered because the baby wasn’t named in the insurance despite explicitly covering pregnancy-related care is ghoulish behavior. I can’t fathom how you can argue that seriously and not feel like a piece of shit.
