Usually when working class and proletariat brought up, it means those who have to work to live. The bourgeoisie are the owning class who can just not do anything yet will be set for life.
You risk alienating white collar or high-income working class with these slogans
No, you don’t. Everyone who has/had to work for a living (without the backstop of a trust fund) is quite aware. Anyone you would be alienating was already gone.
And where does their power and wealth come from? The working class
It seems that they have forgotten this fact.
Respectfully, shut the fuck up. We are done licking boots. I will wholeheartedly advocate for more corporate assassinations. They are fucking killing us, taking out a couple of them is a drop in the bucket
You realize we are not talking about the account or lawyer that lives down the street right?
We are talking about those who do not contribute a thing to society and get rich from our suffering.
People are justified in celebrating the death of Brian Thompson. He was not one of us. He is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the pursuit of shareholder returns.
The working class is fed up. You need to make $100,000 to live the American dream now, and that’s if you don’t live near any major city. Anybody with their head on right is not having kids because it is fiscally irresponsible and just going to harm the kid in the long run.
Now they want to take our social security that we paid into our whole lives.
Over my dead fucking body.
No hyperbole. I am not going out silently
It’s great that you are insulated from the raping of the middle class. But maybe shut the fuck up and listen to people’s stories about UHC
Sorry, I wasn’t even talking about this one incident but more in the abstract about the sign in OPs post. I agree that people who take up leadership positions in society have more responsibility, and should be held accountable. The French revolutionaries experienced exactly these same frustrations, so I see some parallels here which make sense. Leaders need to do better, or be replaced one way or another.
someone using such labels look like an envious have-not.
Uh, so true, shame on those peasants for the sin of envy, they should just be satisfied with what they have and let their betters enjoy the fruits of their exploitation.
The working class includes those who earn their living through wage-paying (hourly) jobs, typically involving manual labor or service work without poatsecondary education requirements.
They tend to have modest property ownership, and make close to minimum wage with limited benefits. Working-class jobs are predominantly in the service sector, including retail sales, clerical work, food industry positions, and manual labor.
Which definition of working class are you using that includes doctors, lawyers and engineers?
I had a salaried position working as a cashier at a fucking gas station making 20k a year. Salaried vs hourly is the not the great class war dividing line. Also, public school teachers are salaried, and I’ll be damned if I’m giving over the teachers to the guillotine.
Its a general definition of the phrase. There will always be exceptions. There is still no evidence that anyone considers doctors, engineers, lawyers etc to be part of the working class.
They are generally considered to be part of the professional class. More have become beholden to corporate structures as America descends further into late stage capitalism, but they are still not generally considered part of the working class.
Most Amazon / Walmart workers, Uber drivers, fast food workers etc. would likely scoff at the idea of considering those professions to be working class as they are.
Yeah, not exactly. In Marxist philosophy there are only two classes, the owning class and the working class. If you don’t own the productive means of society then you’re working class. In reality, though, the vast majority of (at least American) people probably subscribe to a three class model, lower, middle, upper, without any understanding of political philosophy or Marxist theory, in which case doctors and lawyers would be middle-to-upper-middle class. Tech billionaires and national politicians would generally be upper class
Well this is why I made the post, I don’t know if OP was doing it but my comment is directed more towards the person who made that sign.
Most people are working class because they lack the resources and status from generational wealth.
Edit that said, I don’t think it’s fair to make someone feel bad about what they were born into. If someone is actively working against the betterment of other people’s lives, that’s a separate issue.
The thing is unlike all other things you can be born into, wealth can be given up. You can’t give up being black or poor, but if you’re born into generational wealth to the point you’re of the ownership class by default, you can give that up and get a job.
Why should someone give up their wealth? For most people, wealth serves as a way for self determination.
Edit we also baselessly assume that working class people have better ethics or morals than some wealthier counterpart. This isn’t necessarily true.
Fact is though that people are inherently self-preserving. There’s nothing bad about it per se, but it can result in callous behaviors. Animals developed altruistic behaviors for group preservation, which is an extension of self preservation. But overall, someone will always look to self preserve. Helping out a family member or neighbor or friend is also an act of self preservation because they’re your network. Doing charity is an act of self-preservation because you want to believe in a larger network of good humans. Progressives need to build their policies around this basic fact.
Second, progressives will benefit from acknowledging that people have two needs: 1) some understanding of what it means to be human beyond the basics of mating, shelter, and fitting into a group, and 2) some way to exercise individuality and engage in self determination.
Religion and spirituality cover need 1, and economic tools cover need 2. However, all religions are trash fantasy, and our economic tools don’t work for people who they don’t work for. Humanitarian ideals are a better substitute for religion, and we need some form of Nordic model socialism which helps even out bad luck in people’s lives.
But saying that someone shouldn’t be wealthy is wrong. Wealth accumulation isn’t the problem. The problem is sociopathy which neglects basic social contracts. People are not here to be servants or serfs or slaves. People deserve opportunities for self determination, and our current system is not providing that for some.
I think you’d be hard pressed convincing anyone that a physician or lawyer acting as an independent contractor and selling their professional services for $200+/hr is working class.
If you can’t afford your lifestyle without working, you’re working class. If you become homeless without work, you’re working class. If you’re a few missed paychecks away from having to rely on savings for maintaining your life, you’re working class.
We’d have a more reasonable and progressive society if people were honest about their lack of social safety nets.
I think you’d be hard pressed convincing anyone that a physician or lawyer acting as an independent contractor and selling their professional services for $200+/hr is working class.
That is indeed your opinion and not what the working class is. That is what I meant by gatekeeping, thank you for demonstrating it again.
I understand now that you are using the communist definition, which is not the definition that’s widely agreed upon but is popular here. Another user clarified that. Thanks and glad we could clear things up.
Professional and Technical ‘classes’ and other specializations may have more privilege and income, but end the work-derived income and their assets will not sustain them.
They are subsets of the working class because they must work.
Please stop with the intra-class hate, it’s just a bad look and makes someone using such labels look like an envious have-not.
You risk alienating white collar or high-income working class with these slogans, who have a lot of political power.
The problem is compounded by the fact that most people have a misconception about their class status, and don’t realize that we’re all working class.
Your doctors, lawyers, engineers, and even some politicians are working class, but don’t want to admit it, or don’t understand how class works.
Edit inter vs intra is a sob
Usually when working class and proletariat brought up, it means those who have to work to live. The bourgeoisie are the owning class who can just not do anything yet will be set for life.
Removed by mod
So who are the aristocrats if not the billionaire ceos?
No, you don’t. Everyone who has/had to work for a living (without the backstop of a trust fund) is quite aware. Anyone you would be alienating was already gone.
You’re really underestimating the propaganda at play
And where does their power and wealth come from? The working class It seems that they have forgotten this fact.
Respectfully, shut the fuck up. We are done licking boots. I will wholeheartedly advocate for more corporate assassinations. They are fucking killing us, taking out a couple of them is a drop in the bucket
Removed by mod
I make these comments because I hate seeing people bring up the same tired ideas which lose at the polling booth.
I agree that people deserve better, but there are a lot of idiots who cannot tell allies apart from foes. There’s no helping such people 🤷♀️
You realize we are not talking about the account or lawyer that lives down the street right?
We are talking about those who do not contribute a thing to society and get rich from our suffering.
People are justified in celebrating the death of Brian Thompson. He was not one of us. He is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the pursuit of shareholder returns.
The working class is fed up. You need to make $100,000 to live the American dream now, and that’s if you don’t live near any major city. Anybody with their head on right is not having kids because it is fiscally irresponsible and just going to harm the kid in the long run.
Now they want to take our social security that we paid into our whole lives.
Over my dead fucking body.
No hyperbole. I am not going out silently
It’s great that you are insulated from the raping of the middle class. But maybe shut the fuck up and listen to people’s stories about UHC
Brian Thompson earned his death
Sorry, I wasn’t even talking about this one incident but more in the abstract about the sign in OPs post. I agree that people who take up leadership positions in society have more responsibility, and should be held accountable. The French revolutionaries experienced exactly these same frustrations, so I see some parallels here which make sense. Leaders need to do better, or be replaced one way or another.
“replaced”
Inter-class hate is the best kind of hate
Ah I always get inter and intra mixed up
Think of the internet as opposed to an intranet
Uh, so true, shame on those peasants for the sin of envy, they should just be satisfied with what they have and let their betters enjoy the fruits of their exploitation.
^/s
I am using the same language as people who make this type of criticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
deleted by creator
Class is a bad look.
The working class includes those who earn their living through wage-paying (hourly) jobs, typically involving manual labor or service work without poatsecondary education requirements. They tend to have modest property ownership, and make close to minimum wage with limited benefits. Working-class jobs are predominantly in the service sector, including retail sales, clerical work, food industry positions, and manual labor.
Which definition of working class are you using that includes doctors, lawyers and engineers?
I had a salaried position working as a cashier at a fucking gas station making 20k a year. Salaried vs hourly is the not the great class war dividing line. Also, public school teachers are salaried, and I’ll be damned if I’m giving over the teachers to the guillotine.
Its a general definition of the phrase. There will always be exceptions. There is still no evidence that anyone considers doctors, engineers, lawyers etc to be part of the working class.
They are generally considered to be part of the professional class. More have become beholden to corporate structures as America descends further into late stage capitalism, but they are still not generally considered part of the working class.
Most Amazon / Walmart workers, Uber drivers, fast food workers etc. would likely scoff at the idea of considering those professions to be working class as they are.
Yeah, not exactly. In Marxist philosophy there are only two classes, the owning class and the working class. If you don’t own the productive means of society then you’re working class. In reality, though, the vast majority of (at least American) people probably subscribe to a three class model, lower, middle, upper, without any understanding of political philosophy or Marxist theory, in which case doctors and lawyers would be middle-to-upper-middle class. Tech billionaires and national politicians would generally be upper class
Ah that explains the response. I was using the modern American definition. Genuinely appreciate the clarification
Doctors are a part of the working class, like all trade labor. They are always included in the definition of working class.
Gatekeeping what working class is. That’s new. Just thought it meant that you worked for a living instead of being an “owner class”
Well this is why I made the post, I don’t know if OP was doing it but my comment is directed more towards the person who made that sign.
Most people are working class because they lack the resources and status from generational wealth.
Edit that said, I don’t think it’s fair to make someone feel bad about what they were born into. If someone is actively working against the betterment of other people’s lives, that’s a separate issue.
The thing is unlike all other things you can be born into, wealth can be given up. You can’t give up being black or poor, but if you’re born into generational wealth to the point you’re of the ownership class by default, you can give that up and get a job.
Why should someone give up their wealth? For most people, wealth serves as a way for self determination.
Edit we also baselessly assume that working class people have better ethics or morals than some wealthier counterpart. This isn’t necessarily true.
Fact is though that people are inherently self-preserving. There’s nothing bad about it per se, but it can result in callous behaviors. Animals developed altruistic behaviors for group preservation, which is an extension of self preservation. But overall, someone will always look to self preserve. Helping out a family member or neighbor or friend is also an act of self preservation because they’re your network. Doing charity is an act of self-preservation because you want to believe in a larger network of good humans. Progressives need to build their policies around this basic fact.
Second, progressives will benefit from acknowledging that people have two needs: 1) some understanding of what it means to be human beyond the basics of mating, shelter, and fitting into a group, and 2) some way to exercise individuality and engage in self determination.
Religion and spirituality cover need 1, and economic tools cover need 2. However, all religions are trash fantasy, and our economic tools don’t work for people who they don’t work for. Humanitarian ideals are a better substitute for religion, and we need some form of Nordic model socialism which helps even out bad luck in people’s lives.
But saying that someone shouldn’t be wealthy is wrong. Wealth accumulation isn’t the problem. The problem is sociopathy which neglects basic social contracts. People are not here to be servants or serfs or slaves. People deserve opportunities for self determination, and our current system is not providing that for some.
Defining a phrase is not gatekeeping.
I think you’d be hard pressed convincing anyone that a physician or lawyer acting as an independent contractor and selling their professional services for $200+/hr is working class.
If you can’t afford your lifestyle without working, you’re working class. If you become homeless without work, you’re working class. If you’re a few missed paychecks away from having to rely on savings for maintaining your life, you’re working class.
We’d have a more reasonable and progressive society if people were honest about their lack of social safety nets.
Some of the only working class people actually making anywhere near what they should be making
If you work for your paycheck, you’re working class… If your “money works for you” you’re not
That is indeed your opinion and not what the working class is. That is what I meant by gatekeeping, thank you for demonstrating it again.
I understand now that you are using the communist definition, which is not the definition that’s widely agreed upon but is popular here. Another user clarified that. Thanks and glad we could clear things up.
Professional and Technical ‘classes’ and other specializations may have more privilege and income, but end the work-derived income and their assets will not sustain them.
They are subsets of the working class because they must work.