Is it simply over-correcting in response to western anti-communist propaganda? I’d like to think it’s simply memeing for memes sake, but it feels too genuine.

  • Sanctus@anarchist.nexus
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    16 小时前

    Its wild reading this shit online every day when the real.life communists I meat in mutual aid get along wonderfully with me. Its time guys, the Soviet Union has fallen, Capitalism has emerged from its Cocoon once again showing its true colors of fascism. Anarchists and Communists need each other now more than ever. Make those alliances, I’d much rather deal with each other in the aftermath than be put to the boot in Amazon City.

    • MrNobody@quokk.auOP
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      15 小时前

      Capitalism can’t emerge again, it never left.

      And it’s time you stop thinking of capitalism as the only enemy and focus on systems of authority as a whole. Capitalism doesn’t stone gays to death, but religion does. Kings didn’t need capitalism to oppress peasants. Authority is the root of all evils, capitalism is one manifestation of it.

      It’s time to unshackle your limited thinking or you risk being put under another boot.

      • Sanctus@anarchist.nexus
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        15 小时前

        It can emerge from its cocoon as fascism again, which is what I meant. Capitalism has two faces, well, fascism has two faces with the first being capitalism. I didnt even read your comment cause its full of projection and just wild assumptions about me. But yeah, its pupated again into fascism.

    • MrNobody@quokk.auOP
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      15 小时前

      Hey queermunist, what’s your opinion on Article 121 of the USSR criminal code?

  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    3 天前

    When people talk about “Stalinism,” they usually mean one of 2 things:

    1. Marxism-Leninism, the synthesis of Marxism with the advancements made by Lenin. Stalin synthesized Marxism-Leninism, so this gets called “Stalinism” despite Stalin’s minor contributions compared to Marx and Lenin.

    2. The policies of the USSR while Stalin was General Secretary of the CPSU.

    The former, Marxism-Leninism, is the largest tendency of Marxism by far. This is because it has proven its utility in practice, establishing socialism in many countries with varying local conditions and contexts. Lenin’s contributions to Marxism are near universally accepted by Marxists, and Stalin did not change from them in synthesizing Marxism-Leninism.

    The latter, Stalin’s policy positions, are largely either contextualized and explained, rather than actively defended, or are genuinely good feats. For example, under Stalin, literacy rates skyrocketed from ~30% to 99.9%, life expectancy doubled, education and healthcare were made free at all levels, jobs were guaranteed, and much more. Genuine faults, like criminalizing homosexuality, are recognized as such by Marxist-Leninists.

    As Weng Weiguang says, The Evaluation of Stalin is Essentially an Ideological Struggle. Marxist-Leninists don’t idolize Stalin. At the same time, Stalin synthesized Marxism-Leninism, and oversaw the world’s first socialist state during its most turbulent period. The CPC rates him as 70% good, 30% bad, and this rating is roughly orbited by most communist orgs. Those who denounce Stalin entirely, also denounce the USSR, and existing socialism.

    Stalin was a committed Marxist-Leninist, and oversaw the world’s first socialist state for the overwhelming majority of its most tumultuous period. He was no saint, but at the same time was no monster either. He is remembered by liberal historians as far worse than comtemporaries like Churchill who in actuality were far worse than Stalin.

    As Nia Frome says, we can either distance ourselves from Stalin, and by extension the USSR and actually existing socialism, or we can fight back against bourgeois narratives about Stalin and the USSR, acknowledging their faults while being able to uphold their tremendous successes as examples of the possibilities of socialism in power. Historical nihilism, and throwing Stalin and by extension much of the early soviet union under the bus, was ultimately what allowed for liberalization within the USSR and partially contributed to the death of socialism in eastern Europe.

    If you want an intro to Marxism-Leninism, check out my new basic ML study guide!

        • Riverside@reddthat.com
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          3 小时前

          God, I’ve been reading your exchange with ThirdConsul and it’s painful. I’m sorry you have to endure this shit.

          If you want an additional reference to the USSR actually subsidizing the Polish economy, Szymanski’s “Is the Red Flag Flying” goes in detail about this, and proves with economical data that 1955 onwards the USSR subjected itself to the short end of the stick of unequal exchange and provided raw materials to the COMECON countries at international market prices and below in exchange for industrially manufactured goods. Some nationalist Poles are to a certain degree aware of this and instead of framing the exchanges as “dismantling of Polish industry” as this clueless user is doing, speak of “the USSR giving us useless iron and taking finished industrial products from us”, completely devoid of any understanding of high value-added goods.

          Also, the user is outright lying. The USSR absolutely warned Poland not to get into loans with the IMF, and Poland ignored it anyway, proving again Poland’s political independence within the Eastern Block.

        • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
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          3 天前

          Mhm. I get that your country is hostile to the world and its own citizens. I do. But that doesn’t make Stalin - or any era USSR - good. This dichotomy of white vs black, good vs evil is the most USian brainwashing that is afflicted on your people. From your post I can see you preemptively dismiss any critisizm or argument and while you said MLs don’t idealise Stalin, it seems that you do.

          Those who denounce Stalin entirely, also denounce the USSR, and existing socialism.

          I’m from Poland. To us, to a country betrayed by the Allies and sold to Stalin, their occupation did not bring prosperity, or equality, nor socialism. We were systematically robbed by the USSR from the wealth, intellect and industry (as noted by then governments and listed as a plea for USSR to stop), and even lives. We were made to take loans to invest in the Empire, while staying a satelite country and tying our planned economy to better native Russian territories. We did call then the Red Army - Red Locust. You need to realise that when you glorify it, you automatically dismiss our traumatic past. It is like getting told by a stupid child that if we’re hungry we should eat cake.

          Since USA wages war outside its territory and was never invaded nor conquered, you might not know that trauma - especially from war and being a conquered nation, worse nation - is transgenerational https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma

          Were there people who thrived under USSR occupation? Yes, but they are thriving currently too, both politicians and capitalist leeches. Did Poland progress under the occupation? Yes, like every damn other country in Europe. We would progress more as free people, no historian thinks differently.

          The latter, Stalin’s policy positions, are largely either contextualized and explained, rather than actively defended, or are genuinely good feats

          When I read your comments I can’t not see you as anything else than a guilt feeling nepo baby. Or at least someone so privileged, that they never ever thought about other people lives outside of statistics. An empty headed academic.

          Tl; dr; the revolution was made into abomination of itself and claiming otherwise is blindness

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            3 天前

            Mhm. I get that your country is hostile to the world and its own citizens. I do. But that doesn’t make Stalin - or any era USSR - good.

            The USSR was good based on its own progressive merits.

            From your post I can see you preemptively dismiss any critisizm or argument and while you said MLs don’t idealise Stalin, it seems that you do.

            I don’t.

            I’m from Poland. To us, to a country betrayed by the Allies and sold to Stalin, their occupation did not bring prosperity, or equality, nor socialism.

            I’ve spoken to people from Poland that have the opposite to say. The fall of socialism in Poland brought a dramatic collapse in any kind of left, which is why Poland is so far-right today.

            We were systematically robbed by the USSR from the wealth, intellect and industry (as noted by then governments and listed as a plea for USSR to stop), we were made take loans to invest in the Empire, while staying a satelite country. We did call then the Red Army - Red Locust. You need to realise that when you glorify it, you automatically dismiss our traumatic past. It is like getting told by a stupid child that if we’re hungry we should eat cake.

            Again, I’ve heard much the opposite. That’s why anecdotes are terrible measures of truth. The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe brought skyrocketing poverty rates, prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness, and 7 million excess deaths.

            Since USA wages war outside its territory and was never invaded, you might not know that trauma - especially from war and being a conquered nation - is transgenerational https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma

            I’m aware.

            Were they people who thrived under USSR occupation? Yes, but they are thriving currently too, both politicians and capitalist leeches. Did Poland progress under the occupation? Yes, like every damn other country in Europe. We would progress more as free people, no historian thinks differently.

            And yet Poland is now in a far-right spiral with far greater disparity.

            When I read your comments I can’t not see you as anything else than a guilt feeling nepo baby. Or at least someone so privileged, that they never ever thought about other people lives outside of statistics. An empty headed academic.

            Cool story, you know nothing about me. Believe it or not, statistics and historical fact do outweigh simple anecdote, and the idea that I have never thought about people’s lives outside of statistics is deeply wrong.

            • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
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              3 天前

              Splitting this to a separate comment because it was too long:

              The fall of socialism in Poland brought a dramatic collapse in any kind of left, which is why Poland is so far-right today.

              I mean dude, not even close. Polish leftist parties were antiworker from the 90s. Anything further left was dismissed as “USSR was saying the same lies”. Fool me once kind of thing.

              Add to that the short time where there was upwards mobility in the country when it first became “capitalists”, as well as fhe fact that in the past 20 years median personal real wealth grew.

              And yet Poland is now in a far-right spiral with far greater disparity

              Yup. The current generation is seeing that the wealth is unequally distributed (1% owns 45% of wealth), as well as all those rentier leeches, banks making record profits year after year, and the Facebook/Tiktok ( or generally USA right wing) propaganda is turning like 10% into MAGA-style idiots, and the rest is also slowly radicalizing. We do see that in the below 35 age group the left-leaning is still strongest, but the PIS and Konfederacja are following Repulican party strategies and gaining tracktion.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                3 天前

                So in other words, the far-right used the standard red-scare playbook to purge communists and socialists, and now Poland has immense disparity and is entirely controlled by the far-right.

                • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
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                  3 天前

                  No, don’t hyperbolize. This isn’t your narrative.

                  the far-right used the standard red-scare playbook to purge communists and socialists

                  No. It was everyone in the free Poland. We were rebelling constantly under USSR occupation.

                  and now Poland has immense disparity and is

                  No. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=PL&start=1985 But we do see foreign corporations leeching from us and actively enshittifying. The home ownership rate is decreasing.

                  and is entirely controlled by the far-right.

                  That depends what you mean by far right. I’d call the current political landscape of Poland as right-centrist PO in coalition with centrists (the rest of the coalition) vs (oppositon) right-centrist PiS with (growing) republican-clone Konfederacja

            • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
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              3 天前

              What anecdote? I’ve made no anecdotes? The only person mentioning any anecdotes is you, e.g.

              Again, I’ve heard much the opposite

              Regarding USSR stealing industry:

              https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grabież_i_przejmowanie_mienia_poniemieckiego_na_Ziemiach_Odzyskanych#%3A~%3Atext=Grabież+i+przejmowanie+mienia+poniemieckiego+na+Ziemiach+Odzyskanych+–+Wikipedia%2C+wolna+encyklopedia

              (I’m sorry wo don’t really translate that to English). But you can try to Google for sources in English.

              I’ve spoken to people from Poland that have the opposite to say

              You might’ve spoken to people who remember the late 80’s fondly. Not 50-70s. Or ZOMO (secret terror police) or similar, they always had privileged lives.

              Unless you were in the Party, Army or Zomo, life was not roses at all, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_October

              The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe brought skyrocketing poverty rates, prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness, and 7 million excess deaths.

              1. Poland is not Eastern Europe

              2. prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness <- you might be confusing that with what is common in the USA.

              3. Excess deaths https://wol.iza.org/articles/mortality-crisis-in-transition-economies/long#%3A~%3Atext=Features+of+the+transition+mortality%2Climited+changes+in+family+stability.

              4. skyrocketing poverty rates

              Not really, no? After we detached from the ZSSR everything had to be restarted and the first decade was hard. We had to start from little, figure out export routes, rebuild a damn lot of industries etc? We were economy attached and made dependant on USSR, how could the split not be hard?

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                2 天前

                Poland, prior to socialism, was 2/3rds controlled by foreign capital, and was severely lagging behind the rest of Europe industrially. By 1948, Poland’s industrial output was 153% of what it had been in 1938. Post-war, the economy grew over 300% from 1945 to 1948.

                In the 1930s, Polish life expectancy was ~46 years old. After the introduction of socialism, and improved healthcare, it reached 70. Before socialism, literacy rates were ~80% in urban areas and ~30% in rural areas. With socialism, total literacy rates were 98%. With socialism came legalized abortion and greatly expanded women’s rights.

                The dissolution of socialism, as I said, brought ~7 million deaths around the world. You didn’t dispute that, the argument seems to be on your end that these were necessary for economic growth. What Poland could have done is remain socialist.

                • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
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                  3 天前

                  Everything else tomorrow, its 1am

                  The dissolution of socialism, as I said, brought ~7 million deaths. You didn’t dispute that, th

                  I literally added a link it was 8400. You gave no sources. Trust me bro is not a source.

  • F_State@midwest.social
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    3 天前

    A form of tribalism specific to the Left known as Campism where people will justify any bullshit by people who oppose “the West” in some way.

  • cabbage@piefed.social
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    4 天前

    People want the world to be simple and make sense. The cold war was great for this, as it presented two simplistic idealistic world views in competition.

    Some people saw through capitalism and understood that freedom in the west is not all that it’s made up to be. Not wrong. But then they make the fallacy of concluding that the alternative they are presented with is good, which would be Soviet communism.

    Of course many people understood that both alternatives are oppressive, but once you discover some “forbidden knowledge” it’s easy to start going a bit insane and to disregard evidence that goes against your world view, because clearly there is a great conspiracy at work. If you make the mistake of arguing with radicalized people they always have some stupid anecdote that they believe serves as solid evidence of any crackpot theory they have. In this sense it’s just like conspiracy theories, and it tends to be the same type of people: lonely men who feel the world has treated them unfairly.

    Authoritarian-leaning people need to believe that there is a good authority out there who wants them well and that they can follow. For the authoritarians that lost faith in the west, Stalin provided a strong alternative and remains iconic among these bootlickers. Putin just doesn’t offer an alternative in the same way.

    • EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world
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      2 天前

      lonely men who feel the world has treated them unfairly.

      Authoritarian-leaning people need to believe that there is a good authority out there who wants them well and that they can follow.

      So basically fascism, tankieism and authoritarianism in general could be solved with more femdom?

  • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
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    4 天前

    I think the defense of Stalin comes at the end of a particular path that can be very appealing to people for various reasons.

    One potential driver of it is that ML/Stalinist groups are not too dissimilar from a secular religion; it has a group of people ready to welcome you as a friend and ally as long as you agree to a certain worldview and a very specific reading of history from approved texts that always pose historical Maxrist-Leninists as righteous figures who didn’t really do anything that bad, and if they did, it was for the greater good, and justified.

    Those texts can even make a certain amount of sense if you’re disillusioned with the status quo, and distrust western media. It’s also likely extremely comforting to believe that while the western world is fucked up and exploitative, there are at the same time powerful allies elsewhere in the form of the AES states, which in their view are making steady progress towards the promised socialist utopia.

    So ML groups can offer a feeling of belonging, friendship, a comforting worldview, and the belief that if we just follow the directions of long dead prophet-like historical figures (like Lenin or Stalin), then we will someday have heaven on earth. These are extremely appealing aspects to someone who may be very lonely, or who may have suffered a severe trauma and may not have their basic needs met (which may also be what leads to some people being attracted to the MAGA cult)

    To someone well versed in history and a desire to find multiple viewpoints for a historical event to avoid propaganda bubbles, the true nature of ML/Stalinism and its authoritarianism becomes self-evident. But for those who never went down that path and are in a vulnerable state, a ‘scientific’ cult offering you hope, meaning, and companionship is very easy to fall into, and thus willingly self-delude themselves to attain in-group status.

    Just like with normal religions/cults, once they are deep inside it, they are heavily encouraged by the in-group to suspect any outside information that challenges their narratives or isn’t approved by the group, and thus the cognitive dissonance they could create if looked at more objectively can mostly be avoided.

    Also similar to religions; a ML member is strongly encouraged not to have doubts about the validity of the approved sources/texts/history. If doubts are voiced, the group will attempt to re-affirm the validity of the texts (keep the faith). But if that fails and the member continues to voice doubts, they are likely to be ejected from the group, which is very traumatic for most people, but especially so if there is no other support groups to lean on. This likely results in many keeping doubts to themselves, or convincing themselves those doubts are just CIA lies, similar to how Christians try to reject their own doubts with the concept of Satan spreading lies to tempt a Christian from their faith through logic or archeology.

  • rockerface🇺🇦@lemmy.cafe
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    4 天前

    Simply put, they have no idea what they’re talking about.

    Stalin took credit for defeating Nazis (after carving up Poland with them first, but who cares about minor historical details) and was leading this big global superpower that could stand up the The Evil West (while also crushing every other leftist organization that didn’t bend the knee, but again, minor details).

    And from there it’s a pretty simple leap to the world being divided into the Good Camp and the Bad Camp. The US is clearly in the Bad Camp (which is the part I don’t argue). The USSR was against the US. Therefore it must be the Good Camp. The idea of multiple evil people opposing each other is a bit too complicated for them.

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 天前

      Pop quiz though, how many times did the USSR offer to ally against the Nazis with Poland and who torpedoed that?

      Minor historical detail really.

          • rockerface🇺🇦@lemmy.cafe
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            3 天前

            So… still USSR, represented by Molotov eventually deciding to side with Nazis. Really unsure how it’s Poland’s fault, as you implied previously

            • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              3 天前

              That is such a ridiculous take even British historians disagree with you.

              Are you interested in understanding history and trying to learn from it?

              There were many talks, the British and French governments refused to commit, prefering to let the Nazis kill Slavs. They told the Polish government that despite Hitler loudly saying how he was going to kill Slavs and take their land this would not happen. The USSR said they would fight, first in Czechoslovakia when it was annexed, second when the Nazis were building up forces on Poland’s boarders. Both times they needed permission to send armies through (and later in obvs) Poland.

              The polish government, being capitalist shitbags, were terrified of a revolution and denied this. Preferring to take their chances with Hitler and the dubious guarantees of the British. This worked out famously well for them.

              The ussr, having been a nation of serfs 20 years ago, and being unable to fight alone abandoned the talks that were being deliberately sabotaged for a NAP to buy time. Literally the same strategy as the UK yet somehow this is an example of the USSR being evil? Despite this being their backup backup plan.

              Framing it as the evil USSR carving up Poland with Hitler is not just subtly wrong, it’s almost the opposite of reality.

                • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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                  3 天前

                  It is okay to be categorically wrong about a historical time period. It wasn’t Molotov in that phase. Molotov replaced Litvinov, who was the foreign minister of the USSR until 1939. Litvinov was the proponent of allying with the West against Germany. (For what it is worth Litvinov likely would’ve signed the Pact with Germany anyway.) But Stalin supported him, and even after being dismissed wasn’t even disgraced.

                  The important subsequent development here is that Britain and France then actively tried to support Finland against the USSR during the Winter War while still technically at war with Germany, who was also supporting Finland. The Phoney War was a real thing that played out, after all.

                  Unless these are too minor of details.

    • Digit@lemmy.wtf
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      4 天前

      Simply put, they have no idea what they’re talking about.

      Stalin took credit for defeating Nazis (after carving up Poland with them first, but who cares about minor historical details)

      As I read that, it occurs, perhaps because they simply are not cognizant of, and do not cognise, any other way (e.g. any “freedom respecting” way), only their one true way. Why won’t we just obey? And they keep their totalitarianising level of authoritarianism preventing them from entertaining the ideas, instead only seeing other ideas as threats, and only study them as far as they need to construct the next argument to protect the one true way, that they’ve identified with, and so defend as if their lives (and more) depend on it, obliterating critical, considerate, creative cognition, leaving only social dominance reflex mode…

      … could be something like that.

  • StraponStratos@lemmy.sdf.org
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    3 天前

    Because they have to latch onto “great men”, it helps with their simplistic cult minded tendencies to defer to authority.

    • Moidialectica [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      2 天前

      Have you read Parenti? You could label him a Stalinist with his views, and that’s the general line who you consider Stalinist to be has, how would his views ever be considered as latching onto great men?

  • onoira [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 天前

    as an anarchist who has organised with meatspace MLs, the topic of Stalin never comes up on its own. it comes up online more often because we’re not doing anything more important than just talking.

    Stalin comes up in meatspace when some liberal confronts an ML and demands to know if they’re ‘Stalinist’ and what they think of the ‘Holomdor’. then the ML explains how ‘Stalinism’ isn’t a thing, they primarily read Marx, Engels and Lenin, and how Stalin was the leader of a team not a dictator and even the CIA’s own profile on him says exactly that, and then explain the ongoing threats the Soviet security state was protecting against and the cultural and economic trauma of losing 15% of their population in World War II, and the climatological history of the Southern regions and how the famine impacted more than just Ukraine and how famines were common in the region, and how the Ukrainian kulaks, protesting that their lands were being given to the serfs, burned crops and equipment and salted the land, and how famines were ended in the region under the USSR, and then ask the liberal if they care about famines under capitalism.

    then the liberal says ‘yeah but Stalin was basically Hitler’ and then we in this group of anarchists, ML(M)s and syndicalists chase this fucking wrecker out into the street so we can get back to work.

    i think any strong opinion on Stalin as an individual is already wrong, because you’re falling for the Great Man of History fallacy. i think Stalin is irrelevant unless you’re an ML cadre who needs to learn from the successes and mistakes of the USSR, but i think the history of the USSR is also important to any communist.

    when you see an ML defending Stalin, it’s almost always because someone is criticising MLs based on an uninformed claim about Stalin, or they’re criticising Stalin from an uninformed position. and i don’t blame them: i’m all for criticising mistakes, but we don’t need to make shit up to do that.

    i get that as anarchists we’re suspicious of statist leaders, but i don’t get why it’s so hard to understand that statists would defend a communist state. even if you see them enemies, you would benefit from reading their theory to understand their position rather than going ‘uhhh, why do statists defend states so much? must be they can’t read, or they’re just stu~pid lol must be because they have daddy issues lol’

    • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      4 天前

      “No the Katyn Massacre was good actually because…”

      Listen, foolish one, historically these Stalin worshippers will use you to install their vanguard party and immediately turn around and kill you for anarchist dissent. Learn from past mistakes and stop trusting autocratic morons. Even when they say “no bro totally trust me bro solidarity bro” it is nothing but a lie. Have fun with Красный Террор два: Электрический бугалу!

        • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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          3 天前

          The closest I have seen is ‘Are we to believe SS death squads that they found the evidence for it in 1943?’

          So, not a good thing, and possibly just more Nazi shit, further not good.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            3 天前

            I’ve spoken quite a bit about Katyn, and have not really seen any Marxist saying “the soviets definitely did it” and “that’s a good thing.” Katyn gets pinned on the Soviets because Goebbels reported on it and it became a useful story, but the execution method was distinctly Nazi, ie killing men, women, and children from behind into mass graves. The ammunition was German-produced in 1941, and the rope used to bind the hands of the victims was German made.

            The Soviets absolutely killed Polish soldiers, but the character of their involvement was not anywhere close to what the Nazis reported.

        • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 天前

          You haven’t heard anyone say this, you haven’t talked to every tankie in existence. I have heard someone say it, and yes they were dumb but of course that goes without saying since they were tankies who think the vanguard party will actually “dissolve on its own when the time comes” LMAO as if.

          But more importantly is the whole “hey dummy they’re going to kill you next like they’ve historically done” part. Don’t help hopeful autocrats, they are not “on our side” because “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy when they’re just going to kill me next.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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        3 天前

        One of that things the CIA had to explain is that enormous, even dictatorial personal power isn’t necessarily the same thing as absolute and unchallenged power. Their power bases are dependant on support from others, and that support isnt guaranteed, that’s just the reality of being electrically charged meat with social structures.

        So US politicians would come to power believing Stalin could do literally anything he wants and all you have to do is convice one man and then the CIA would explain that some things you want him to do would result in Beria or whoever launching a coup to seize power for themselves.

        TL;Dr some people believe dictators can do whatever they want when in reality all power structures are based what people will accept without violent reprisal

        That doesn’t mean they aren’t a dictator, it just means pretending one person holds all power and blame is naive

    • MrNobody@quokk.auOP
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      4 天前

      All I’m hearing from that is in meatspace the mls you meet defend Stalin?

      And after browsing your history, you uh seem to go and bat for statist mls more often than you ever fight for or promote anarchism… not to start on the HexBear emojis.

  • foodandart@lemmy.zip
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    4 天前

    I would wager it’s as they don’t read actual historical documents of those who witnessed and survived Stalin, is why. Dude was bloody-minded as fuck, and in a tweenaged subset of the population, death, misery and degradations are “cool”.

    The political flip side are the right-wing chuds that join ICE so they can tear families apart and “own” the left.

      • foodandart@lemmy.zip
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        4 天前

        Off the top of my head, no. (It’s been decades since I’ve thought about any of this, TBH…)

        What you can do is branch out and read up on the people he had around him in government, like the Deputy Chair of the Soviet secret police, Lavrentiy Beria. (Now that’s a dark hole to look in to, he was feared more than Stalin.)

        Stalin was a thug at heart. Angry and conniving, but surrounded himself with even worse people. (Gee, who can we see as a mirror of that today? Yikes…)

        Who he chose to do his bidding, that’s where the full scope of the horror of Stalin can be found.

        • onoira [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 天前

          you mean the podcast hosted by Robert Evans, the anarchist who writes for Bellingcat which is funded by the anticommunist National Endowment for Democracy which is currently run by former Bush staffers and is a literal CIA front?

          In 1986, NED’s President Carl Gershman said that the NED was created because “It would be terrible for democratic groups around the world to be seen as subsidized by the CIA. We saw that in the 1960s and that’s why it has been discontinued”.

          In a 1991 interview with the Washington Post, NED founder Allen Weinstein said: “A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”

          that ‘anarchist’, who likes to talk over his guests, and his takes on countries outside the US repeatedly mirror the State Department?

          as an anarchist, i do wonder if the antistatist who is funded by an anticommunist US government organisation might have a bias

    • FerretyFever0@fedia.io
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      4 天前

      I’ve had multiple arguments online with people regarding the Holodomor. They all found some way to blame it on the US or claim it was overexaggerated. Which is interesting, because there is absolutely no proof of either claim. If the US had somehow found a way to starve Ukraine specificially, the Soviet Union could’ve fixed that quite quickly, with this little invention known as the train.

    • Tonava@sopuli.xyz
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      4 天前

      The worst tankie-argument I’ve encountered so far was “well gulags weren’t that bad, only couple millions died”, so I have to agree they haven’t read a single thing about history of those times, but also it seems like there’s something seriously wrong with these types of people just in general

      • tron@midwest.social
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        3 天前

        Somebody in this thread said Churchill was way worse than Stalin lol. I must have missed the chapter about the English gulags and millioms murdered in them.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          3 天前

          Churchill was largely responsible for starving over 4 million Indians to death, and had this to say to defend himself:

          I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.

          On top of this, Churchill was very close with the Nazis, to the point that Hitler was certain Britain would side with the Nazis in the coming war. When FDR and Stalin joked about executing Nazi officers after the war was over, Churchill stormed out of the room, as “those men were defending their country.”

          As for the soviet prisons, an enormous number of prison deaths occured during World War II, when famine was widespread due to the Nazis storming Ukraine, the USSR’s breadbasket. On the whole, soviet prisons and the justice system itself were more progressive than their peers, Mary Stevenson Callcott documented it quite well in Russian Justice.

          The soviet union, despite having a progressive legal system, was in a state of constant turmoil caused by pressures both external and internal. They couldn’t simply delete all previously existing ruling-class people and ideology, class struggle continues under socialism. Further, pressure from the imperialist west, invasion both in threat and in action, and intentional sabateurs meant that the prisons certainly weren’t empty. The soviet union never had a single year of normal, stable growth, free from intense opposition on the outside and counter-revolutionary forces on the inside.

  • Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 天前

    So many .ml/hb users commenting on an anarchist comm, and predictably with the worst takes trying to defend it, pretend it doesn’t exist, or that it’s all cia.

    To answer your question. I suspect because it makes them feel good. Look at how Christians love their god, despite the fact he kills people frequently for the a slightest transgression and is all around a selfish demanding prick. They ignore those parts and construct an idealised character in their head that emboldens only what they see as positive and anyone complaining is part of the out group, the enemy and as such doesn’t have a real complaint.

  • booty [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    4 天前

    As an anarchist:

    There’s no such thing as “stalinism” and whatever you think that word means is some bullshit the US government told you to prevent solidarity among the working class.

    • goldyLocks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      4 天前

      Stalinism is the means of governing and Marxist–Leninist policies implemented in the Soviet Union (USSR) from 1927 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin.

      Per Wikipedia.

      I get it. It’s pointless to get mad at someone for purely voicing their support for a certain system of governance on the internet, but saying “it just doesn’t exist” is kind of ridiculous.

      • booty [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        4 天前

        There’s a wikipedia page for the “holodomor” which is a Nazi conspiracy theory. There’s a wikipedia page for the “uyghur genocide” which was made up by the CIA. There’s a wikipedia page for plenty of shit that isn’t real.