Mind you, I’m biased since I’m not from the US, I’m Balkan. So a quick heads up there. Plus I’m a hardline commie so yeah. Just did some research on this because It caught my eye.

I haven’t really noticed this here or at Lemmygrad. But a lot of online “leftist” spaces, especially on Reddit, are over hyping this shit too much lmao.

Zohran so far:

This circlejerk about a social democrat getting elected is doing my head in, people are acting like the October revolution happened.

Just don’t act surprised when magically not much actual change happens in New York. Also don’t give me “Oh but the pipeline!!!1!”. Yeah If the pipeline actually worked, Bernie and AOC supporters would have been actual marxists by now (Also as a Serb, fuck Bernie, Parenti was right about your dumbass).

I have a pet peeve with American “anti-capitalists” in general. Where they constantly just whine how everything is expensive, no public transport and no free healthcare. Yet they’d probably be fine with the world suffering as long as they got those three things + whatever treats they want.

Don’t forget to join a good org nearby you, read and organize folks!

  • KnilAdlez [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    36·
    16 days ago

    I think it is important to keep in mind that America, and New York especially, is the core of anti-socialism/ anti-communism. He’s not the savior of the left. The left shouldn’t have a savior anyway. The movement towards socialism is a rolling ball. Mamdani is that ball blowing through a blockade built by the capitalists. The path is now open for more leftists with more rigid ideology, and the more he delivers, the more momentum the ball will gain.

    The capitalists will build bigger defenses, and the work is far from over, but it’s a sign of good things to come.

    • the rizzler@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      16·
      16 days ago

      i’m not convinced social democracy does all that. i mean, have swedish communist parties made significant gains recently? in america, there’s a good case to be made that fdr saved capitalism. im not convinced there’s anything to be won with mamdani

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        81·
        16 days ago

        I never said it did, I said it opened the door. It is only opportunity, and it must be seized. The ball rolls slowly now, but it will pick up speed exponentially.

        In america, there’s a good case to be made that fdr saved capitalism

        I’ll admit I haven’t done a ton of reading on this particular topic, but as much as you can argue the New deal eased class tensions in America I’m sure you can argue that it was a failure of the American communists to take advantage of the concessions to foment further labor militancy.

        • the rizzler@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          8·
          16 days ago

          it was a failure of the American communists to take advantage of the concessions to foment further labor militancy.

          this is a good point. how can new york communists take advantage of the mamdani win to agitate? i would imagine communists elsewhere in the usa can look to mamdani and say “we can make that happen here” but what happens after that?

          • KnilAdlez [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            31·
            16 days ago

            There are better people to ask than me, I’m sure, but I would say the next step is community outreach + education. Get people used to the idea of publicly being communist and explain what it is. Get people to understand that even under electoralism, politics does not stop once they leave the voting booth.

    • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      15·
      16 days ago

      Ah, but if he doesn’t deliver and even starts making standard Dem excuses, how will this alleged momentum be maintained? There is no reason to assume Mamdani is going to die on the hill of any principal. There is no party he is answerable to. And there are many opponenta with resources.

      Really, I am skeptical of all claims about momentum and electoralism. Generally speaking the election itself is the height of momentum and then they have to eat shit for their entire term regardless of what they try to do. To keep up momentum you’d need to have a small army that you can mobilize coherently. I’ve seen communists do this to success. I’ve never seen DSA do anything remotely like that. They are too busy getting a paycheck or looking to the next election or squabbling about exactly how chauvinist to be on some chat or meeting or what the new rules for their chapter should be when it comes to being sufficiently pro-green new deal. NYDSA entertained a proposal to avoid criticizing Mamdani when in office. Not sure where that went, but I’m guessing it didn’t pass since I haven’t seen people making fun of it.

      The only momentum that matters is that which can mobilize coherently. That which gets people involved, educated, and taking concerted action. The momentum we can use it to try and peel off the good vibes for socialism among many young people and focus it into something better than NYDSA types of things.

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        9·
        16 days ago

        I don’t disagree, but understand that we are not anywhere close to that point. Mamdani’s win is celebrated simply because it shows that the American people are viewing actions dubbed socialist as neutral if not positive. That’s how far away we are from actually winning.

        This is the opening of the door to begin building those structures in earnest. It will take fresh blood and new organizations (dsa and cpusa are dysfunctional and need to be either reformed or replaced) and a ton of work by real communists. Instead of being negative, look at this as an opportunity and do not let it go to waste.

        • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          16·
          16 days ago

          I think this gets the cause and effect reversed, though. For example, by this logic, the Bernie Sanders campaign demonstrated the same thing 9 years ago and opened the same door. But is that really what happened? The campaign itself was dismantled and the leftovers sold to the DNC. The hangers-on of campaign staff that are still relevant are basically liberal chauvinist hucksters. Some generally left formations grew, but this was largely after he failed, not succeeded. The campaign didn’t really open doors, the doors were already open but people hadn’t thought to enter them, they didn’t think they existed, the campaign said some of them did and then arguably stood in the way of them in lockstep with the bourgeois party. And so afterwards those who were inspired and then disaffected looked for and found those doors again.

          They were already primed, they just had nobody trying to organize them, and the campaign didn’t really do that either. The growth was through self-organization where people out their hopes into whatever group seemed most aligned with them. It requires that vacuum, because no Sanders campaign was going to pick them up and organize.

          So today we have another electoral campaign, and this time the person won. Same thing, they call themselves socialist and run on the Dem ticket, and play a bit fast and loose with what socialism is, trying to conflate it with minor social democratic reformism. What doors are now open that had previously been closed? There are few disaffected, as he actually won. He is going to actually govern and have to own the conditions that will likely continue to degrade. The DSA, particularly NYDSA, is too disorganized and unprincipled to be a force behind him to agitate sufficiently for what is needed. Perhaps their numbers will grow based on this win. But who is joining and what will this means in an org that has literally no education program or consistent actions? Will other orgs grow because of this? Probably not through positive vibes about a Mamdani win. Maybe through criticizing his eventual mistakes and betrayals, but how will that compare to those soured on the socialist that stabbed them in the back or didn’t do anything?

          I just don’t see a tangible connection between “socialist brand won an election” and “things are looking up for organizing”. I can note that from personal experience a municipal socialist in office made an area basically poison for socialists for about two decades.

          • KnilAdlez [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            31·
            16 days ago

            For example, by this logic, the Bernie Sanders campaign demonstrated the same thing 9 years ago and opened the same door. But is that really what happened?

            Two socialists ran for mayor of New York and one of them won. In all of my responses I have never endorsed electoralism. Or really any form of entry-ism. What I said was that a socialist went up against big money and won. Which is a better result than we had 9 years ago. It is slow but I still call that progress.

            But O.K. then don’t believe me. The doors are shut. Elections cannot be a litmus test for general sentiment. No progress has been made. What’s the next steps then? What’s even the point of trying?

            Don’t bother answering, because what I really want to know is ARE YOU GOING TO GO ORGANIZE OR NOT? Obviously the NYDSA isn’t. You have to. Every one of us has to. Now is the time to do so.

            • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
              91·
              16 days ago

              So you don’t endorse entryism or electoralism but when I point out the specific flaws in logic around celebrating an election win by an entryist DSA member I am saying there has been no progress made and there’s no point in trying? I didn’t make you say the things that are flawed or respond to me when I point out those flaws.

              I do organize, so why are you lecturing me on this? You are saying irrational things and getting personal. Am I supposed to take away from this that you are not overly invested in Mamdani and electoralism?