This is literally my parents. They told me to stop criticizing the people in power, even going as far as saying I shouldn’t criticize the government of my former country. I don’t even have citizenship in my former country anymore, not sure how I could even get in trouble for criticizing is effecively a foreign country to me. (I’m talking about PRC btw).
My mom told me to “just focus on improving your own life and stop worrying about things like you can’t control like politics” (as in, both the politics of my former country and the politics of my current country)
Am I in the wrong here? Should I just keep quiet and not say anything so that I don’t “get in trouble”?
Keeping your head down just ensures they come for you a little later.
Just sit quietly until they come for you. That is what I can hear those parents saying.
We’re always fighting the last war. Take their input seriously but also understand that the world you live in is different from the one they grew up in. They’re trying to teach you how to stay safe under a dictatorship, they don’t want your life to be ruined because you got mad about a thing once in college.
This , people who criticise govenrment in a dictator led country dissapear , lose job opportunities , are suicided by 2 gunshots to the back of th head etc
Sort of like how the CIA tried to blackmail MLK into suicide and then had him killed when he refused to back down?
How many non-capitalist countries has the US bombed, overthrown through black ops, sanctioned or embargoed?
The US is every bit as bad fascist Russia, but Americans are so brainwashed that they refuse to see it. Even if you tell Americans about how the US infected black men with syphilis and forbid the doctors from treating it, Americans will just bury their head in the sand
Agree , america bad … but noone mentioned anything about america before u did , we’re talking 3rd world dictatorsh… ohhhhh waiiiit
Two powerful countries doesn’t like peoole like me and we got a commenter (the person you replied to) debating which is worse 🙄
Mate , i live in a third world shithole where our thinly veiled dictator does as he pleases … if you live west of the Gdansk/Thessaloniki line please chill out , you have more rights than any of us here
Yeah you shit out that angy whataboutism
Show that western pig who’s boss!
Am I in the wrong here? Should I just keep quiet and not say anything so that I don’t “get in trouble”?
No. Openly communicating (constructive) criticism is essential for improvement. As is protesting if matters are severe.
My mom told me to “just focus on improving your own life and stop worrying about things like you can’t control like politics” (as in, both the politics of my former country and the politics of my current country)
You can do both. A little personal life improvement here and a little societal improvement there.
Make no mistake, you’re probably just a drop of water in an ocean. But: speaking about what matters to you, going to vote (if possible), engaging in shaping the society, just mere talking to others about stuff can already change so much. It can change minds or at least give incentives to think about. More importantly, it can connect you to other drops in the ocean, until you form a cup of water. Maybe a barrel next. And who knows, maybe one day enough to roll over the land like tsunami. Preferrably not deadly though. ;)
Keep fighting. Keep engaging. If we keep quiet and do nothing, we will let rule those, who know how to use this passivity to their advantage.
Only dead fish go with the flow.
It’s tough because police in the US are becoming increasingly militarized and aggressive, even colleges have been tyrannical lately. Criticism of the regime is becoming risky and I can understand not wanting your kids hurt …….
But we still have free speech where I live (and we’re white, non-immigrant). Major politicians joined the protests, so I’m not too concerned. I told them that standing up for what is right is a good thing, however you have to accept the risk getting in trouble for it. In case that happens, I’ll be there for you.
Unfortunately I couldn’t persuade either of my teens to go and I was out of town. Even more annoying I have a prior commitment for the upcoming protest so we’ll probably miss that too
My concept of patriotism is a duty to criticize your country, so it can improve. Admittedly I say that from privilege and low risk
I tell my kid both.
Keep out of trouble so when you do cause trouble, no one will point at you and say “it’s probably him like last time”
I teach him to question everything, even me, and I tell him when I was wrong about something, or got new information, or that I don’t know something and we look it up.
I teach him to look at why someone is doing something if it seems weird, they probably have ulterior motives.
I teach him to cover his tracks and only steal from corporations, not your neighbors, or normal everyday working people. They work hard for their possessions, steal from the rich if you have to. And do it carefully and methodical, no reason to go to jail over something basic.
I teach him to stick up for those that can’t defend themselves, and ask him regularly if he’s being bullied and make sure he’s not bullying anyone.
We have a deal if he sees any kid, even if he doesn’t know them, not eating lunch to tell me so we can pack two next time.
He did something recently he wasn’t supposed to and lost his switch for the weekend. I showed him how I caught him so he can be better and sneakier.
I’m not rich by any means, but he’s more privileged than most, he’s very humble and looks out for others as well.
I mentioned this to a teacher I had a group dinner with when we were introducing ourselves, she looked at me like I had 3 heads. I trust my kid, trouble will happen, no doubt, he will be prepared.
I think it’s important to stand up for what you believe in, but be aware of the dangers. Your parents probably tell you to keep your head down because their top priority is your safety
It is clear that your parents are concerned for your safety and well being and I don’t think that is an unreasonable position to have. Nobody wants to learn that their child was arrested or killed at a protest.
However. Great change does not come from folks staying safe and quiet at home.
I think many parents are struggling with this right now. On one hand it is our duty as citizens to do something about the world around us and not sit in complacency. On the other hand that’s extremely dangerous to do in the current environment. I doubly respect this concern coming from Chinese folks who may have experience with having their speech suppressed in the past.
I support you being out in the streets and making a big noise with the rest of us. But I am not your family. If you were to die, or be taken prisoner, at a protest I would never know your name, only that you were my brother who gave his life for our cause. You would have my unending respect but in the end what I think of you shouldn’t matter for you and yours.
Protesting is dangerous. More so now than ever before. Things worth doing are never easy but this, especially, is something that has a serious chance of ending or ruining your life. Make your peace with that, or avoid it if you can’t. The world needs dissenters right now, but it needs ones that are well seated in their confidence.
At the end of the day though, no matter what happens, I can’t be mad at anyone for prioritizing their personal safety. A revolution will require sacrifice but that isn’t something that can be asked of someone. It is given freely or not at all. Your parents are asking you not to make a sacrifice.
I recently read an article by Bruce Levine who suggests that neurodivergent people are inherently anti-authoritian and the “Normie’s” basically persecute and medicate us to maintain their version of order (I’m taking great liberty with my summary).
Its a concept that really piqued my interest as I grew up in the height of the ADD/ADHD diagnosis period and discovered through experience that almost everyone around me who were also labeled as having “learning difficulties” also shared my same sentiments on politics and the world in general. I think its the reason I related so well to Punk Rock music and never understood why anyone would listen to mainstream music.
Anyway, here is that article I was reading. Pretty sure I stumbled on it through Lemmy:
You don’t realize how much you have to lose until you do. You could become homeless or deported if you get caught under this administration.
We’re reaching a point where the government is deporting green card users for protesting against Israel’s genocide. It won’t be long until US Citizens get the same treatment. And don’t think for a second that you’d be the only one punished. You could be dragging your entire family down with you.
So unless you’re willing to become jailed, homeless, or deported, id listen to your parents.
Im ASD and diagnosed with major depression and on SSD.
That means I’m high up on the purge list anyway.
We’re all on that list. Even those of you who keep their head down. That’s the point of the Niemöller poem, especially since Trump’s shadowy masters are not trying to become dictator for life rather to bleed the federal general fund for a while before skedaddling to Switzerland or Liechtenstein.
You can’t lie low on this one as if it’s a protracted storm. At least I can’t.
Let me put it this way. If I was Tank Man I would have regretted that decision for the rest of my life while I was being tortured to death. Why would I do something that I would regret?
That is a fair assessment, and in a world where life is expected to be stable and tolerable, it is stongly tempting to keep your head down.
China may be that kind of stable, though from what I hear, they disappear people for benign offenses, and people have to manage their social rating. Not easy to do when you’re, say, gay, or neurodivergent, or Uyghur. I can’t help but wonder if the acceptable norm is shrinking, and the list of undesirables is growing.
Here in the states, it already is growing. And unless you’re doing sexual favors for a billionaire or are indispensable to a billionaire, you’re on the purge list, just further down than homeless folk and Latins.
Granted you might rather just be summarily executed than tortured. I personally am terrified by the marks on the interior walls of the Auschwitz death camp genocide chambers where the victims were clawing as they died. In the current path of least resistance, I’ll be making those marks one day, or rather will perish from malnutrition in CECOT.
If I have to go out suffering, I’d rather I made a difference. If I lie low, I might as well commit suicide, which I’ve actually considered except that would cause harm to others connected to me.
It’ll also suck for them when ICE comes for me and my neighbors are silent.
what’s SSD?
Social Security Disability.
One of the things Musk is trying to kill because I am allegedly useless.
Musk is about to learn there are practical reasons to assure the wellbeing of non-workers, including NEETs.
We often sre useful, just in ways not recognized by pure transactionalists and capitalists. And those uses can and do turn renegade.
Oh, and yes I agree with you.
Initially I though what solid state disk has to do with ADS.
My generations parents? The lead chip eating boomers that helped fuck america? Pass.
If everyone dissents then dissent can not be crushed.
Never let a government scare you
And if you’re at the point where they are killing or dissapearing dissenters then being quiet won’t save you from the thought police, the only option then is to take as many of them with you as possible when they come for you.
Not a good one, that’s for sure. Actually my parents are the exact same, monarchist bootlickers. When i shit talk the government in front of them, they always defend it as hard as possible and talk about how dangerous it is (It is, but that’s literally part of the problem??)
Ffs, my dad literally had a co-worker ““disappear”” and he still defends the government. It’s just always “thank god for what we have, we shouldn’t get involved in politics”
As context, i’ve been a republican (for americans, i mean actual republican, not the US party.) from a pretty young age, and i still am. Which is why political debates between my family are always fun ;^)
Life is politics. Being apolitical is a political stance. There’s no avoiding it.
Heh. I agree, i wish everyone else did, though ;^)
They can try to avoid politics, but politics isn’t going avoid them.
They are frightened because as immigrants, you are among the most vulnerable. HitlerPig is not respecting any laws, especially immigration laws. He’s even trying to invalidate Birthright Citizenship, which is in the Constituion, and a concept that nearly every government in the world respects.
If he won’t even respect the citizenship of someone who was born in America, he isn’t going to respect the rights of ANYONE born somwhere else, no matter what their legal status is, given by some other president.
I have close friend who came here from Venezuela, got her green card, then became a citizen in 2024. She feels safe, because she’s a citizen now, but i don’t trust these MAGA Traitors to respect that.
He has been especially vocal about hating Venezuelans. I think its because we have granted special status to Venezuelans, but HitlerPig respects Maduro because he was able to turn his thriving successful country into a starving dictatorship, which is HitlerPig’s greatest ambition.
Should probably specify, i am not an immigrant and have never set foot on american soil. We have our own clown show in my country, and is an absolute monarchy which is why i usually butt heads with basically everyone else lol. Republicanism is a very frowned upon (and illegal) ideology lol. But when’s that stopped anybody?
Wait, aren’t you in Saudi Arabia right now?
From what I heard, it’s worse than PRC, do you feel scared when talking about politics at home?
Like in PRC, the expectation would be prison / forced apology depending on severeity. Isn’t dissent like a death sentence in Saudi Arabia? 😬
(I hope you are using Tor btw)
Wait, aren’t you in Saudi Arabia right now?
Yep, lol.
From what I heard, it’s worse than PRC, do you feel scared when talking about politics at home?
I almost never talk about my beliefs/criticism of the government, it’s a risky game. Only the internet i’m actually free to say as much shit as i can (that is, if they don’t find me lmao)
Like in PRC, the expectation would be prison / forced apology depending on severeity. Isn’t dissent like a death sentence in Saudi Arabia? 😬
Wait, really? I never knew it was that lightweight in china. Yeah, it’s flat out public execution (even torture depending in some cases) it’s pretty fucked. Oil barons are absolute scum 🫠
(I hope you are using Tor btw)
Only on mobile i use orbot on almost all social media, but desktop’s still a WIP on privacy. Learning about good opsec right now.
Wait, really? I never knew it was that lightweight in china. Yeah, it’s flat out public execution (even torture depending in some cases) it’s pretty fucked. Oil barons are absolute scum 🫠
Some of the protestors of the Tianamen Square protests (those who survived anyways) were jailed, not executed. There were some who fled to the US, but later returned to China (I don’t know what was the person thinking lol) but he didn’t get arrested, he was denied entry and told to GTFO. Some were less lucky, and got disappeared.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#Immediate_aftermath
Each of the 21 students faced diverse experiences after their arrests or escapes; while some remain abroad with no intent to return, others have chosen to stay indefinitely, such as Zhang Ming. Only 7 of the 21 were able to escape. Some student leaders, such as Chai Ling and Wuer Kaixi, were able to escape to the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and other Western nations under Operation Yellowbird, which was organised by Western intelligence agencies such as MI6 and CIA from Hong Kong, a British territory at the time. According to The Washington Post, the operation involved more than 40 people and had its roots in the Alliance in Support of Democratic Movements in China formed in May 1989. After the Beijing protest crackdown, this group drew up an initial list of 40 dissidents they believed could form the nucleus of a “Chinese democracy movement in exile”.
The remaining student leaders were apprehended and incarcerated. Those who escaped, whether in 1989 or after, generally have had difficulty re-entering China up to this day. The Chinese government has preferred to leave the dissidents in exile. Those who attempt to re-enter, such as Wu’er Kaixi, have been simply sent back but not arrested.
Chen Ziming and Wang Juntao were arrested in late 1989 for their involvement in the protests. Chinese authorities alleged they were the “black hands” behind the movement. Both Chen and Wang rejected the allegations made against them. They were put on trial in 1990 and sentenced to 13 years in prison. Others, such as Zhang Zhiqing, have essentially disappeared. After his initial arrest in January 1991 and subsequent release, nothing further is known about his situation and where he lives now. Zhang Zhiqing’s role and reason for being listed on the 21 most wanted is generally unknown; this is the case for many others on the list, such as Wang Chaohua.
According to the Dui Hua Foundation, citing a provincial government, 1,602 individuals were imprisoned for protest-related activities in early 1989. As of May 2012, at least two remain incarcerated in Beijing, and five others remain unaccounted for. In June 2014, it was reported that Miao Deshun was believed to be the last known prisoner incarcerated for their participation in the protests; he was last heard from a decade ago.
I think its mostly due to international pressue. China was opening up trade at the time, and is now the largest trading partner to many countries. If they do too much oppression, they’ll get sanctioned. So they try to do it more covertly and as less as possible to stay under the radar of foreign countries, but just enough oppression to keep the rulling party in power.
China used to be much worse during the Mao-era, its slowly improving. Homosexuality is now legal, transgender people are tolerated but they require surgery for official recognization. Its moving in the right direction. Who knows, maybe one day China will become a democracy.
Unfortunately that international pressure appears to be disintegrating before our eyes…
Yeah… fuck.
The pressure from the US is gone, since the US is now itself becoming dictatorial. So now it might work in reverse. Maybe trump is gonna try to make China to ban LGBTQ people, who knows. I mean, Russia and the US is getting so close now, and both countries are trying to ban LGBTQ people, this type of backwards policy could spread to China.
I hope the EU and other “progressive” trading partners of China is enough pressure to keep the CCP in check. (Seeing the AfD of Germany doubling in support, I’m kinda losing hope)
Well, that’s interesting. thank you for the facts, i never knew that.
Yeah, saudi arabia was WAY worse like 7-13 years ago, but it’s still horrible today. Maybe one day we’ll become a democracy too, but i’d expect at least a century before the idea of that even becomes plausible lol.
As a parent, I’d say be politically active and don’t get into trouble. There are strategic uses of getting into trouble like mass civil disobedience but it takes a lot more of non troublesome kind of political activity before getting there.
Removed by mod
You have to do you, OP, and accept potential consequences, good, bad, neutral. You may want to sit with that for a while before deciding.
