• ormr@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    If we’re already in illusionary politics land, here’s my take on Donbass and Crimea. I don’t care about their independence referendums. There’s even a secessionist movement in Bavaria, demanding independence from Germany. Doesn’t mean that any prick who thinks they deserve their own country should get one. How did the russians even end up there, if not by imperalist soviet policies which btw led to the deportation and death of millions who lived there before, e.g. Crimean Tatars. So Crimea belongs to the Tatars, right? Or no: Lets go back further. It belongs to the Greek who settled there before the Tatars! It’s not like the Russians in Ukraine are some fucking indigenuous tribe whose customs and rituals deserve to be world heritage. While they should be treated with the same dignity as all citizens of Ukraine it’s not like having a common language for teaching has anything to do with violating “ethnic constitutional rights”.

    In the end, the big majority of people in the Donbass would probably have preferred not to be occupied by unmarked troops sneaking into their homeland and afterwards being governed by idiotic strongmen who draft them for a war they never wanted.

    • KarlBarqs [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      ·
      1 year ago

      I don’t care about their independence referendums. There’s even a secessionist movement in Bavaria, demanding independence from Germany. Doesn’t mean that any prick who thinks they deserve their own country should get one.

      And yet I guarantee you were full in on the Free Hong Kong bullshit a few years ago lmao, fuck outta here.

    • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      They ended up there because they fought and died against the fucking Nazis you historically illiterate ingrate. They migrated there after the Nazis had killed millions of Ukrainians, people who fought against the very Nazis and Banderite fascists that Ukriane now celebrates as ‘national heros’. ‘Imperialist soviet policy’, Ukriane was the breadbasket of the USSR, a technological powerhouse where the prime computer and cultural development of the USSR occured. An opportunity wasted by their corrupt political elite, a different elite than what is in charge now. Some fucking imperialism that is.

      It literally is, oblasts have had long-standing right to teach their native languages, a right that was violated by the government almost immediately post Maidan, regardless of heritage or not. I would rather have had them be independent republics, but the likelihood of that is impossible under modern sovereign state politics.

      You haven’t watched a single piece of documentary on the post-Maidan Donbass, or even Ukrainian history at all, you don’t know anything about what you are talking about.

    • ferristriangle [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      1 year ago

      I don’t care about their independence referendums. There’s even a secessionist movement in Bavaria, demanding independence from Germany. Doesn’t mean that any prick who thinks they deserve their own country should get one.

      What even is the point you’re trying to make here? All independence movements are the same? That if there is a different independence movement that you don’t support in completely different circumstances then that means not supporting autonomy for people in the Donbass is reasonable because you are able to draw a thin veneer of logical consistency through completely superficial comparisons?

      If your national government gets undemocratically overthrown in a coup and then starts implementing policies to strip away rights in your region of the country based on removing your ability to participate in public life and suppressing access to political representation and economic/social participation with tactics such as making it unnecessarily difficult to participate in society using your native language, then that seems like fantastic justification to want independence and autonomy. Why would you need to draw comparisons to other secessionist movements based on little more than the superficial similarity that it is also a secessionist movement?

      How did the russians even end up there

      Oh, it’s because your actual argument is that the people being affected are acceptable targets for racial/ethnic discrimination, and that they deserve to be relegated to their appropriate status as second class citizens without meaningful political representation, or better yet expelled from their homes so that the pure and righteous Ukrainian nationalists can reclaim their nation. But that’s a less palatable argument, so you had to preface it with some bullshit before you slid that in there.