Numerous businesses across the United States, including Minnesota, will shut their doors Monday, workers will stay home and consumers are urged not to shop.
If someone enters a country without adhering to said countries immigration policy they would be a criminal every single time. I don’t understand how this became controversial. Every other country that has immigration laws and upholds them is kicking people out constantly. Why is it only bad when America decides to actually enforce its own rules?
Americans are deported or outright denied entry into the UK all the time for having improper paperwork or breaking laws. Is the UK “racist” against Americans? Fuck no. They just want you to show up with the proper paperwork and complete the process as the UK government has decided it needs to be done.
Most of us aren’t questioning immigration constraints, only how to handle those who have immigrated without following the legal process.
The question is how aggressively are immigration laws enforced, and do they respect human rights, asylum or health needs. How are children and family treated? What about those with nothing to return to, or only violence and persecution?
Also, how responsive- if you let someone build a life over years and decades, how can you in good conscience uproot them and send them back to a place they may no longer know.
How equitably are these enforcement actions applied? While I don’t have real stats, I’ve read the claim, in multiple places, that most undocumented immigrants are those who have overstayed temporary student or work visas. Are enforcing immigration laws equally on them, or only n Spanish speaking, poor, or darker skin people?
I cannot, in good conscience, begrudge any family who illegally enters a country when they are fleeing violence or poverty in their own country (e.g.: they are from a country that is effectively run by drug cartels, or is in the midst of civil war).
“You need to fill out the appropriate paperwork before your family can be safe” is not an argument that will ever sway me. The bureaucracy takes too long in the vast majority of cases. People are scared and want a better life.
Some people illegally immigrate for less serious reasons, in which case sure, get 'em to fill out the proper forms. But I cannot support deporting people whose entire reason to illegally immigrate was for their safety and/or livelihood.
And please note that this position is wholly a moral one, not a legal one. I am a person with a moral compass, not a lawyer.
See and I agree with everything you said, but there is one small issue.
If you are going to let people in who claim they need safety because of the danger of their home country or whatever else it may be then why would anyone take the legitimate route to immigrate when that takes so much more time and energy? The incentive for bad actors to game the system and claim they need to skip the other legal and lengthy process of being properly immigrated is much too high.
Let’s say you need them to provide proof of the life they need saving from. How does that work? Who verifies their claims?
This would be like adding a third line at Disney land for people who need to get on this ride “right away” because they have terminal cancer. Liars, cheats and evil people will absolutely just jump into the line and lie to skip sitting in the other line like they are supposed to. As usual bad people ruin things that were intended to be good for others.
Unfortunately I don’t think just letting everyone who claims they need help in right away is the solution either. If anything we need more people processing immigration paperwork and getting people in who have followed the correct process as soon as possible.
The “small issue” you described is a logistical one that remains unsolved by bureaucrats, lawmakers, judges, or anyone else. “Bad actors ruin it for those who really need it” is the same “small issue” people use to argue against many services people genuinely need in order to survive.
“Deport them all and let God sort 'em out” is the course America has chosen, and it is the immoral course, as far as I am concerned.
we need more people processing immigration paperwork
Agreed, but it won’t happen, especially under this administration. They don’t want more immigrants, even “legal” ones. They say they are only against “illegal” immigrants, but let’s be real here. Lemme know when they sign into law some additional funding for hiring more bureaucrats to parse immigration paperwork. I won’t hold my breath.
When immigrants know the legal pathway is unreasonably slow and will not be improved in any way, there’s no incentive to do it the “legal” way.
Because you’re redefining the argument in order to defend a topic that is not being discussed.
I don’t like having to shut down any discussion here as I like helping to promote discussion/debate, but unless you start showing an attempt to stay on the topic in good faith, I’m going to shut it down.
What are you talking about? The original article is talking about immigration through the lense of this particular protest. I’ve been talking about immigration. In what world have I brought up a new topic?
Dude what are you talking about about? I have only been discussing this news article in these comments. Feel free to point out any comment here where I haven’t been talking about immigration or this protest about immigration.
I’m assuming it’s you that has been deleting my comments while hiding behind “automod”. None of the comments you have deleted have broken the rules you are claiming I have. I haven’t been racist. I never said humans are inherently illegal. You have deleted two or three comments and listed “racism” as the reasoning, but I have not said anything racist at any point in this thread.
I understand that you don’t like me and you think I’m racist, but that doesn’t give you the right to just delete comments you disagree with when they haven’t broken any rules man.
Removed by mod
“Don’t protest that way”
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Huh, the article doesn’t specify which ones they are protesting for. You seem to have added the illegal part. Pretty sus.
Cue defensive statement
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Go read the fucking article. Or do you see the word immigrant and just assume they are illegal?
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You don’t determine who is a criminal. A court of law does. Removed for bad faith accusations/misinformation.
If someone enters a country without adhering to said countries immigration policy they would be a criminal every single time. I don’t understand how this became controversial. Every other country that has immigration laws and upholds them is kicking people out constantly. Why is it only bad when America decides to actually enforce its own rules?
Americans are deported or outright denied entry into the UK all the time for having improper paperwork or breaking laws. Is the UK “racist” against Americans? Fuck no. They just want you to show up with the proper paperwork and complete the process as the UK government has decided it needs to be done.
Most of us aren’t questioning immigration constraints, only how to handle those who have immigrated without following the legal process.
The question is how aggressively are immigration laws enforced, and do they respect human rights, asylum or health needs. How are children and family treated? What about those with nothing to return to, or only violence and persecution?
Also, how responsive- if you let someone build a life over years and decades, how can you in good conscience uproot them and send them back to a place they may no longer know.
How equitably are these enforcement actions applied? While I don’t have real stats, I’ve read the claim, in multiple places, that most undocumented immigrants are those who have overstayed temporary student or work visas. Are enforcing immigration laws equally on them, or only n Spanish speaking, poor, or darker skin people?
I cannot, in good conscience, begrudge any family who illegally enters a country when they are fleeing violence or poverty in their own country (e.g.: they are from a country that is effectively run by drug cartels, or is in the midst of civil war).
“You need to fill out the appropriate paperwork before your family can be safe” is not an argument that will ever sway me. The bureaucracy takes too long in the vast majority of cases. People are scared and want a better life.
Some people illegally immigrate for less serious reasons, in which case sure, get 'em to fill out the proper forms. But I cannot support deporting people whose entire reason to illegally immigrate was for their safety and/or livelihood.
And please note that this position is wholly a moral one, not a legal one. I am a person with a moral compass, not a lawyer.
See and I agree with everything you said, but there is one small issue.
If you are going to let people in who claim they need safety because of the danger of their home country or whatever else it may be then why would anyone take the legitimate route to immigrate when that takes so much more time and energy? The incentive for bad actors to game the system and claim they need to skip the other legal and lengthy process of being properly immigrated is much too high.
Let’s say you need them to provide proof of the life they need saving from. How does that work? Who verifies their claims?
This would be like adding a third line at Disney land for people who need to get on this ride “right away” because they have terminal cancer. Liars, cheats and evil people will absolutely just jump into the line and lie to skip sitting in the other line like they are supposed to. As usual bad people ruin things that were intended to be good for others.
Unfortunately I don’t think just letting everyone who claims they need help in right away is the solution either. If anything we need more people processing immigration paperwork and getting people in who have followed the correct process as soon as possible.
The “small issue” you described is a logistical one that remains unsolved by bureaucrats, lawmakers, judges, or anyone else. “Bad actors ruin it for those who really need it” is the same “small issue” people use to argue against many services people genuinely need in order to survive.
“Deport them all and let God sort 'em out” is the course America has chosen, and it is the immoral course, as far as I am concerned.
Agreed, but it won’t happen, especially under this administration. They don’t want more immigrants, even “legal” ones. They say they are only against “illegal” immigrants, but let’s be real here. Lemme know when they sign into law some additional funding for hiring more bureaucrats to parse immigration paperwork. I won’t hold my breath.
When immigrants know the legal pathway is unreasonably slow and will not be improved in any way, there’s no incentive to do it the “legal” way.
Because you’re redefining the argument in order to defend a topic that is not being discussed.
I don’t like having to shut down any discussion here as I like helping to promote discussion/debate, but unless you start showing an attempt to stay on the topic in good faith, I’m going to shut it down.
What are you talking about? The original article is talking about immigration through the lense of this particular protest. I’ve been talking about immigration. In what world have I brought up a new topic?
You have been told this already. If you cannot discuss this in good faith you will be removed from the discussion.
Dude what are you talking about about? I have only been discussing this news article in these comments. Feel free to point out any comment here where I haven’t been talking about immigration or this protest about immigration.
I’m assuming it’s you that has been deleting my comments while hiding behind “automod”. None of the comments you have deleted have broken the rules you are claiming I have. I haven’t been racist. I never said humans are inherently illegal. You have deleted two or three comments and listed “racism” as the reasoning, but I have not said anything racist at any point in this thread.
I understand that you don’t like me and you think I’m racist, but that doesn’t give you the right to just delete comments you disagree with when they haven’t broken any rules man.