Hey everyone,
I still was rather recently diagnosed late in life. Some very helpful people already helped me on another topic, so I wanted to come to you all again:
I have had sleep issues for ages. I didn’t get why, I tried pretty much all the neurotypical advice I was given my whole life or learned about. Sadly I am among the many that still have loads of sleep troubles. Not gonna lie, they broke my spirit more often than I could recount.
I have the full party going:
- Trouble falling asleep due to a few factors (among others: Negative thought spirals, sponanious ideas and impulse control to keep them in check, but mostly that - with hunger, thirst or pain - I just don’t notice my own needs.
- Trouble sleeping longer than (3-4 h) and not being able to fall back asleep
- As consequences of the above I am usually not rested at all. Sometimes I just pass out after work, which makes things harder later at bed time.
As I learned, our bodies should usually sleep at night and our brain chemistry is built for that (duh). But sometimes with ADHD our whole bodily clock is just being off by a lot. That’s apparently why some of us sleep from late at night till late in the morning. Per se fair enough, but not super healthy. And I personally couldn’t find a job that starts at 12 a.m…
Also neurotypical people are apparently not supposed to be bored out of their mind, trying to fall asleep. Supposedly they can lie down, relax their thoughts and can be asleep between 10-20 minutes. My brain for once won’t stop being flooded with thoughts, sensory inputs and such. Those 10-20 are more like 1-2 for me and only with a 25% chance I sleep more than 4 hours.
The only successes I had so far falling asleep when I wanted to, was with prescription meds (with serious health risk attached). The othet thing that works sometimes is, if I can focus, to go on mental adventures, which ideally keep me occupied till I doze off. And the worst thing that works is just having to sleep due to sheer exhaustion.
When we wakes up, apparently many of us can also struggle to fall back asleep. At least I know, wrong bad thought and that was it for the night.
I didn’t know I had ADHD and didn’t really know how it affects every part of me. Therefore i coulnd’t treat my issues properly either. I am still learning lot, but quality adult ADHD resources suck, to be frank. Kinda sad how we are aware ADHD is rough in the mildest cases and you still have to filter all the pseudoscience and bullshit out, just for breadcrumbs of advice.
I must have tried basically all things of the neurotypical advice, I thought could help me. I think especially sleep hygenie is something all people can work on regularly, also us with our ADHD. Improving sleep hygiene might take many forms with ADHD., though. How does yours look?
I’d kindly ask everyone with some knowledge or personal advice to chip in. That’s if and how you found ways to make it easier to sleep for youself. Would you share your stories, so we might all learn more?
Not all tools are for everyone, as we know. But I will give everything here a fair shake and your experiences can be very valuable to me and others too.
I don’t mind starting with basics, mine are probably shoddy. If someone more knowledge or experienced could share their wisdom and get me pointed in the right direction. A bit of advice on where to start and maybe some resources would be appreciated greatly. I feel I fucked up so much treating the comorbid problems of my ADHD, I might have to start from scratch here with “how to human”. I probably learned and adapted many things, which might make my sleep troubles even worse and gotta unlearn some.
Any and all comments are much appreciated, thank you.
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Lifetime chronically poor sleeper here - Look at Andrew Huberman for advice.
Natural supplements: magnesium threonate, glycine, l-theanine, apigenin. No melatonin.
Prescription: 50mg Trazadone when things are really bad. Dogs can easily get this drug prescribed :)
Hygiene: regular sleep time. No phones in bed. Cold room. Improved bedding. If you can’t sleep or wake up in the middle of the night, get out of bed and do -something- that isn’t on a screen for a few minutes. No water near bedtime. No caffeine after noon. Try a white noise machine and a high quality eye mask such Manta.
10 minutes of sunlight immediately after waking. View the sky before the sun sets. Enable blue light filters using something like Twilight, specially for evening hours. Avoid overhead lights at night and, if possible, at night switch to lights that are lower than your head.
Regular meditation and breathing exercises. No alcohol within 4 hours of sleep. Don’t eat any food near bed time.
Get a sleep tracker such as Oura to provide metrics and data on the efficacy of these various methods and to see how your body reacts to timing of stuff like meals, alcohol, supplements, etc.
NEVER TAKE MELATONIN! DON’T LISTEN TO A SOUL ON THAT SHIT! DON’T DO IT, IT IS A SLEEP KILLER!!!
*This person isn’t advocating it but I have by word of mouth found it and by word of “mouth” I shall spread that it’s total bullshit!
Wakeup: bright light box or sun
Evening (after 6): dimmed, amber-red lights
Smart lights or anything like Phillips Hue colored bulbs are a game changer for sleep
I watch a tv show on my phone. I know it goes against all the traditional advice, blue light is bad for sleep, blah blah blah. For me, it means I can get 7 or 8 hours of sleep instead of 3.
I don’t watch just any tv though. It has to: 1. Be a show I know well enough where I can tell which character is speaking when I’m only listening. 2. Have a good amount of seasons (8 or more) so I don’t get to where I’ve memorized the episodes and my mind starts to wander. 3. Is one I know in general what’s gonna happen with the characters (so I don’t have to stay up and find out what happens) but isn’t one I love so much that I can’t stop watching. And 4. Doesn’t have a bunch of nonverbal stuff that’s important to the plot.
I have a sleep headband with little speakers in it so it doesn’t keep my partner up. When I’m ready for bed, I make sure my screen brightness is turned all the way down, I put on my sleep headphones, and I lay down and close my eyes to listen to the show. Usually I can fall asleep in less than an hour, as long as I keep my eyes closed. Otherwise I get caught up watching the show and before I know it I’ve watched 3 episodes and I’m still awake.
We’re gonna need a list of the shows the meet your criteria
Bob’s Burgers is my sleeping show.
After a shit-traumatic event I crammed bb down my throat to chill the fuck out. It was my Tetris =P! That opening song is fucking AWFUL to sleep to. And I wouldn’t advise it for anyone personally because it has woken me from the depths a truck-ton when I was using it during that period. Counter - I am always an advocate of their earlier show dr. katz. That’s a good sleep show because it’s like a podcast and not terribly loud or “exciting” but that’s just me.
Oh Bob’s Burgers is an awesome idea. Adding that to my rotation
Mostly dramas: Bones, House, Criminal Minds, NCIS. Plus Stargate SG-1
I’m similar. For me it’s Friends, Parks and Rec, QI, 30 rock, New Girl. Ones like that.
It depends on the sound of the show for me. For instance - American Dad, old Futurama are great. Family guy, not so much. I also like to listen to specific streamers condensed videos. ZFG1 is a dude that plays old Legend of Zelda games. He’s got a great voice to sleep through, which doesn’t get boring - he plays the game in randomizers, which changes the playthrough but makes it still familiar enough to listen to. There are hundreds of 7 hour long playthroughs, along with hundreds of videos that are cut down to like 40 mins.
For me, something similar works - I queue up 6 to 9 hours of podcasts, ideally some that are basically just someone narrating, not a lot of sound effects etc. and stories that don’t grab my attention, or rather, just then right amount, e. g. stories I already know.
I actually wake up in total silence. When sleeping next to someone else, I wear a flat headband with built-in speakers.
The podcast Nothing much happens helps me find sleep, but I personally like to listen to Acephale, Knifepoint Horror. I think the cadence people typically read horror at, and the general atmosphere with the occasional synth drone really does it for me.
I’m really not surprised that apparently, some part of the ADHD brain has to be kept distracted at night to let the other parts relax. Also, to some it might feel paradoxical since medication is typically a stimulant, but ever since getting medicated, my sleep cycle got a lot more regular.
I’ve converted Star Trek: The Next Generation to mp3 (all seven seasons) to get the entertainment without the blue light.
This is a really good idea. What program did you use to convert them?
I used ffmpeg in a terminal because I’m familiar with typing commands. That way I could have it loop through them all.
For most people though I’d recommend using a graphical program though. Audacity is free. You can drag and drop an mp4 file (for example) into the window and it immediately gives you the audio to export to mp3 or whatever you like.
Another online commenter explained how to use VLC to do it too: “I’ve found that VLC media player will help with this trick. Open the .mp4 (or any audio file). Once opened, go up to the Media menu and Add your file(s) to the File Selection list. Then select Covert/Save at the bottom. In the Save window that appears, click on the down arrow found on the “Convert/Save” button at the bottom and select Convert. In that window that appears, change the Profile to the format you want (assuming Audio - MP3), give it a Destination, then Start. In just a couple moments, you’ll have an mp3. GL!” Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/podcasting/comments/11e5khr/comment/jacrzgz/
I will look into those. Thank you for taking the time to type it all up, kind stranger
Yes, my partner watches shows on her phone too. It has to be something she knows like the back of her hand but she still likes. To be honest it’s pretty much Futurama or American Dad and she plays it with the filters on and set down a bit so it doesn’t bug me (too much). I still don’t like having tv on personally in the house. I also have a Sony alarm clock that everyone hates for being “too dark” but it’s the only led I allow in my bedroom. Everything else is painted over with acrylic, turned off or taped over. It keeps things from distracting me. If you don’t like sleeping in the dark - find what you do like sleeping in. They sell multi-colored lights you can find your own rhythm and if you’re interested in a partner(s) down the line (or have one currently) there’s surely either something a) you both/all can agree on or b) will find that magical glass slipper of a person who likes the same sleep setup as you =P!
I also have difficulties sleeping, and if I don’t have access to my various strategies I can’t get to sleep because of over thinking, and waking frequently and immediately overthink and can’t get back to sleep.
My main ‘trick’ is finding the right audiobook and playing that as I go to sleep. It’s a bit of trial and error, to find something that works, but it gives me something to focus on as I try to fall asleep so I don’t think about my day or stress or start getting ideas for some project… And when I wake up in the middle of the night, I turn it back on and I fall back asleep in minutes.
Right book (or podcast or whatever) : for me it needs to be a story I know (so that I don’t care about hearing what happens next, and don’t get too confused if I miss sections by sleeping), not too distressing / dark (especially as I’m falling asleep I find violent descriptions can jar me awake), relaxing narration (no music or unexpected noises, nice voice, not too upbeat). Non fiction can also work really well.
Right method : what works for me is playing audiobook on an old phone that i keep under my pillow, with no other apps or WiFi, just the audiobook app and a redshift app (Twilight). To begin with I might listen to the book normally for a bit to get familiar, then I’ll gradually turn down the volume as I’m getting tired and as it gets quieter I have to keep still otherwise I can’t hear it over my rustling the bedsheets. If I feel like I’m too engaged and alert I adjust down the playback speed, so the Narrator gets slower and slower, and that usually makes me sleepier.
If you’re not used to it, I can imagine it taking a while to adjust, but it’s totally solved my issues, and now serves as a immediate sleep trigger for me. When I put on my book, I’m usually asleep within ten minutes. And it’s even faster at returning me to sleep in the middle of the night. And it’s something I’ve done now for years, so I’ve got loads more tips if anyone’s interested but this is already tldr…
got more tips
I’ll bite, lets have em.
The thing that helped me the most with sleep, is simple, but not easy.
Don’t think.
I know, I know. Asking someone who has ADHD to not think is like asking someone to not breathe. I get it. I struggled. It took me a long time to figure out how to do it for myself. I won’t claim to have the answer on how to accomplish this, the process I use, I can’t really explain.
The single most important realization I made on my journey to having the ability to not think, was this: thinking about not thinking, is a thought, and therefore counterproductive.
You have to not think. Do not try, do not think about not thinking, just don’t think. When a thought occurs to you, recognise it, but don’t engage the thought, the same way you would ignore someone yelling into the crowd as you walk down the street. You understand they’re there, but you are going somewhere or doing something and don’t want to get involved, so you just keep walking. Same idea. Just let the thought pass you by without engaging the idea.
It’s simple, not easy.
Sounds like meditation
For the most part it is. I’ve never formally looked into meditation and what is recommended, required, or involved in doing it.
I just went down a path for my own benefit, and I ended up here. It works for me. I don’t consider it actual mediation, but IDK. That’s just not something I’ve gone down a rabbit hole on.
Job that’s starts at 12am…flight attendant!
But also when I had trouble sleeping as a kid my teacher told me to describe my pet to myself in great detail. It worked and since then I’ve described other things, or tried to visualize my way to work or my dream house. It somehow keeps my mind focus but is also relaxing. Hope it helps.
Reading ghormenghast also helps.
This sort of thing works for me, I think the key is instead of trying to quiet your mind, if you instead keep it busy with something mundane or relaxing until it just switches off. Sometimes I pick numbers and do multiplication in my head, and eventually I’m close enough to falling asleep that I forget the two numbers I’m multiplying and at that point I stop and fall asleep within minutes.
for me I’ve conditioned myself to fall asleep after following my routine:
- use my phone for the last time before telling myself I’m done and I want to sleep.
- floss + brush teeth
- shower
- makeup
- put on eyemask
- bed
after that I regularly fall asleep in about 10-15ish mins(can’t check time; just going by feel at this point) and even though I sleep for 6-8hrs I still feel pretty good
I like an eyemask too, although I tend to only use it if I wake up too early and want to go back to sleep - it’s too hot to keep it on all night.
that’s fair
I bought some cheap anime ones on ebay several years ago so they’re really thin, this might be why I can wear mine all night
Weed 🤷♂️
Weed can be addictive for people with ADHD, it’s one of most common of forms of self medicarion but in the long run it probably going to make things worse.
Source: I was addicted for 3 years, at first it did wonders for my sleep issues and increased my productivity. At some point, I had to smoke daily or I would get headaches and huge cravings, my tolerance would constantly increase, and then it didn’t help with my sleep issues anymore.
Now, I am only using it recreationally once every few months. It’s fun but I have to be careful otherwise I know things can turn sour really fast.
for the first trouble on mitigating negative thought spirals, I like to meditate and practice with cognitive behavioural therapy in addition to rewatching Stoic Quotes
If you let any electronics come into your bed and you are attempting to sleep, you’ve already lost. But if you read on your devices try to turn off everything you plausibly can in order to setup an environment conducive to reading. You could also grab an ereader and load it up with a couple of books (not too many, you’ll get overwhelmed) and take them down bit by bit. Put on some soft music with a timer if you need some noise. Or get used to the silence, which I don’t think I was super into when I was younger but for sure got easier and more desirable as I got older.
Put your phone across the room on a charger if you can - because it’ll not only help with falling asleep but also waking up. Because you gotta drag your ass outta bed to get it. If you live somewhere terribly cold leave your clothes under your sheets with your phone at the base of the bed. Try and keep them folded up so they don’t look like smashed up shit.
My partner sleeps with tv on every night, but she watches it on her phone so everyone’s got their something. In extreme measures (when I am trying to force a habit) I have all my electronics shut down at a set time. But I am pretty okay with myself right now. Just figured I’d share what works. But you gotta find your own rhythm.
One last thing is - if you get medicated you pass out like the dead all night. At least in my case. So you know, find what works.
p.s. - WORKOUT! Do eet! Get yourself as tired as a sleepy dog.
p.p.s. - Washi paper =)!
This is not healthy advice, but I take 3 Tylenol pm( no acetaminophen) ~2.5h before bed (over the years it’s increased, and needed to start much earlier and I’m quite tall) melatonin ~1h before bed and start my nightly routine. By the time the sleepy pills kick in, you are out. Plan for either 6 or 8 hours to align with rem sleep cycle and be sure to get out of bed asap in the morning and be sure to replace fluids. When I regulated my sleep schedule, I was able to significantly better manage my life. I wish you luck.
Edit: buy the one without acetaminophen, I guess I wasn’t clear on that? Benadryl has the active sleep ingredient
Sorry, but do you take Tylenol PM every day over long periods of time? That would be a real health concern…
FYI Tylenol PM does have acetaminophen. It’s Tylenol + Benadryl.
You should consider trying an equivalent dose of just Benadryl at night to give your liver a break, especially if you also take regular Tylenol during the day or drink alcohol.
