Shouldn’t have said anything, now I’m getting paragraphs upon paragraphs about Putler and how the West has a moral obligation to prolong the war in Ukraine for as long as possible sad-boi

Also while apparently it can’t be denied that the far right has grown somewhat stronger in Ukraine, the Ukrainian military had to rely on militias such as Azov so they wouldn’t lose, we should not worry because they haven’t seen that much electoral success

  • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    7 months ago

    Also while apparently it can’t be denied that the far right has grown somewhat stronger in Ukraine, the Ukrainian military had to rely on militias such as Azov so they wouldn’t lose, we should not worry because they haven’t seen that much electoral success

    You can push back against this strongly if you want, the neo nazi issue isn’t just relying on them now because of the war began in 2022 nonsense, as if this was a recent change, on the contrary.

    If you haven’t already you can reinforce your position by using the well known western media reporting from the period.

    These are some of the first page google results for me, perhaps it would be effective to do this in person with your friend, have them google something like this search term(remove the quotes) “Ukraine neo nazi before:2018-01-01” maybe mess around with the date filter in front of him, experiment with after:2022-01-01 for example and see the narrative change.

    But here

    2014 Guardian Azov fighters are Ukraine’s greatest weapon and may be its greatest threat

    But there is an increasing worry that while the Azov and other volunteer battalions might be Ukraine’s most potent and reliable force on the battlefield against the separatists, they also pose the most serious threat to the Ukrainian government, and perhaps even the state, when the conflict in the east is over. The Azov causes particular concern due to the far right, even neo-Nazi, leanings of many of its members.

    Dmitry claimed not to be a Nazi, but waxed lyrical about Adolf Hitler as a military leader, and believes the Holocaust never happened. Not everyone in the Azov battalion thinks like Dmitry, but after speaking with dozens of its fighters and embedding on several missions during the past week in and around the strategic port city of Mariupol, the Guardian found many of them to have disturbing political views, and almost all to be intent on “bringing the fight to Kiev” when the war in the east is over.

    The battalion’s symbol is reminiscent of the Nazi Wolfsangel, though the battalion claims it is in fact meant to be the letters N and I crossed over each other, standing for “national idea”. Many of its members have links with neo-Nazi groups, and even those who laughed off the idea that they are neo-Nazis did not give the most convincing denials.

    “Of course not, it’s all made up, there are just a lot of people who are interested in Nordic mythology,” said one fighter when asked if there were neo-Nazis in the battalion. When asked what his own political views were, however, he said “national socialist”. As for the swastika tattoos on at least one man seen at the Azov base, “the swastika has nothing to do with the Nazis, it was an ancient sun symbol,” he claimed.

    The battalion has drawn far-right volunteers from abroad, such as Mikael Skillt, a 37-year-old Swede, trained as a sniper in the Swedish army, who described himself as an “ethnic nationalist” and fights on the front line with the battalion.

    The holocaust never happened and Hitler is a genious, but also the swastica? Don’t worry its just an ancient sun symbol lol.

    But notice how they try to spin the presence of Russian far right nazis fighting for Ukrainian nazis

    Despite the presence of these elements, Russian propaganda that claims Kiev’s “fascist junta” wants to cleanse east Ukraine of Russian speakers is overblown. The Azov are a minority among the Ukrainian forces, and even they, however unpleasant their views may be, are not anti-Russian; in fact the lingua franca of the battalion is Russian, and most have Russian as their first language.

    Indeed, much of what Azov members say about race and nationalism is strikingly similar to the views of the more radical Russian nationalists fighting with the separatist side. The battalion even has a Russian volunteer, a 30-year-old from St Petersburg who refused to give his name. He said he views many of the Russian rebel commanders positively, especially Igor Strelkov, a former FSB officer who has a passion for military re-enactments and appears to see himself as a tsarist officer. He "wants to resurrect a great Russia, said the volunteer; but Strelkov is “only a pawn in Putin’s game,” he said, and he hoped that Russia would some time have a “nationalist, violent Maidan” of its own.

    Reading comperehension people, its not hard, saying that the Russian “propaganda” is false because the Ukrainian nazis are hand in hand with Russian nazis is not a point in your favor lol.

    Many in the Azov battalion with whom the Guardian spoke shared this view, which is a long way from the drive for European ideals and democracy that drove the protests in Kiev at the beginning. The Russian volunteer fighting with the Azov said he believes Ukraine needs “a junta that will restrict civil rights for a while but help bring order and unite the country”. This disciplinarian streak was visible in the battalion. Drinking is strictly forbidden. “One time there was a guy who got drunk, but the commander beat him in his face and legs until he could not move; then he was kicked out,” recalled one fighter proudly.

    Other volunteer battalions have also come under the spotlight. This week, Amnesty International called on the Ukrainian government to investigate rights abuses and possible executions by the Aidar, another battalion.

    “The failure to stop abuses and possible war crimes by volunteer battalions risks significantly aggravating tensions in the east of the country and undermining the proclaimed intentions of the new Ukrainian authorities to strengthen and uphold the rule of law more broadly,” said Salil Shetty, Amnesty International secretary general, in Kiev.

    Human rights abuses in the east(Donbas) region? There is more too about how Azov were already acting as an special police force as well.

    There are more articles too here is another one BBC 2014 Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict

    But Ukrainian officials and many in the media err to the other extreme. They claim that Ukrainian politics are completely fascist-free. This, too, is plain wrong.

    As a result, the question of the presence of the far-right in Ukraine remains a highly sensitive issue, one which top officials and the media shy away from. No-one wants to provide fuel to the Russian propaganda machine.

    But this blanket denial also has its dangers, since it allows the ultra-nationalists to fly under the radar. Many Ukrainians are unaware that they exist, or even what a neo-Nazi or fascist actually is, or what they stand for.

    As Mr Korotkykh’s case demonstrates, the ultra-nationalists have proven to be effective and dedicated fighters in the brutal war in the east against Russian-backed separatists and Russian forces, whose numbers also include a large contingent from Russia’s far right.

    Run by the extremist Patriot of Ukraine organisation, which considers Jews and other minorities “sub-human” and calls for a white, Christian crusade against them, it sports three Nazi symbols on its insignia: a modified Wolf’s Hook, a black sun (or “Hakensonne”) and the title Black Corps, which was used by the Waffen SS.

    Even the BBC wasn’t bothering with BS narrative about “ancient black sun”. The fucking BBC mind you.

    And although Ukraine is emphatically not run by fascists, far-right extremists seem to be making inroads by other means, as in the country’s police department.

    Both articles mention how Azov was already taking control of Ukrainian law enforcement too. This is not just about the army, but a systematic takeover of the entire government.

    But wait there is more

    I wont quote these others but you can read with if you haven’t already and maybe show it to your friend in person.

    Politico 2015 Ukraine’s far-right menace

    WSP 2017 Ukraine turns a blind eye to ultrarightist militia