- cross-posted to:
- sysadmin@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- sysadmin@lemmy.world
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This is very upsetting to me–more as a point of principle than in fact–but I appreciate that it doesn’t bother younger generations at all. I just had a small argument with my 11 year old about how not-a-big-deal-who-cares this is, and it basically ended with us agreeing to disagree since it’ll be his problem and his kids’ problem.
And the problem is normalizing the notion that an OS doesn’t need to include a non-subscription word processor. The entire point of this move is to shift the OS Overton Window in favor of consumers accepting and expecting that features like word processors, spreadsheets, etc., should be installed separately and paid for on a subscription basis despite previous iterations of the same software being feature complete on install and purchased at a set, non-recurring fee.
WordPad hasn’t been anybody’s first choice for a word processor in years, but it was included with Windows and did the bare minimum for unsophisticated users. Now we’re entering an era in which those users will as a matter of course buy off-the-shelf computers that come pre-installed without WordPad, but rather with a trial of Office Fuck-You-Pay-Me Edition. Those users may well discover that after their first six months with their new computer (that has made Microsoft more money selling their data than they paid for it), they suddenly get a pop-up informing them that their trial is up and MS wants $99.99 to release the documents they’re holding hostage.
It’s a step backwards for consumers in general, so even for the sophisticated of us who are least likely to be personally affected by this change, there’s definitely cause for alarm.
I get where you’re coming from but I think you’re overstating the impact in this day and age. If this had been 1995 it’d be a big deal. Now it’s rediculously easy to install any alternative you like for free.
Libre Office is an entire free fully features office suite.
I’m less bothered about removing WordPad than I am about Microsoft advertising and pre-installing it’s products in Windows - they force Edge on people, they push OneDrive and preinstall a preview of Office. That’s the real problem - not losing WordPad.
At one point Anti-Trust / Anti-monopoly regulators globally punished Microsoft for pushing Internet Explorer to consumers and for a long time in Europe had to offer a choice of Browsers to download on new Windows installs. Now it’s allowed to get away with abusing it’s dominant position to force it’s products on consumers.
Does liber office make .docx files and export to pdf?
Yes.
Does liber office make .docx files and export to pdf?
It does. It’s fine as a replacement for Word, but no one has an answer for Excel. LibreOffice Calc is fine for a basic spreadsheet, but Excel is in a completely different universe than Calc with anything beyond that.
To be fair though, Excel is in a completely different universe than literally any other competing product.
I think calc is fine for a lot of use cases. I use it all the time. It is different though.
For advanced stuff I’d rather use Python anyway to be honest.
Excel has built-in Python support now. I wish I was joking.
Yes… processed on the cloud. Lol.
Do you know how both of those compare with Google Sheets?
Sheets is capable enough for the average person but a business is always going to want to use Excel because it’s the industry standard.
I can’t remember the last time I actually needed a spreadsheet for anything other than looking at a bunch of tabular data, but I’m a programmer so I’m not the standard spreadsheet user.
I’m a programmer so I’m not the standard spreadsheet user.
But then what do you use for database???
But then what do you use for database???
Probably a database.
JSON files that get committed to a git repo, obviously. They’re in a private repository in GitHub so that takes care of security and resiliency, two birds with one stone.
If you are an accountant, then it’s your beast of burden.
Accountant here. I prefer libreoffice calc.
Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks for your reply!
Nothing compares to excel. There are spreadsheets, and there is excel. The world runs on excel, and for a damn good reason. Also, excel runs the world, literally.
So you’re telling me that Excel is very good at stuff?
Just use SQL. Even SQLite.
It wouldn’t be as good as everyone says if it didn’t.
Yes, and recent versions of MS Word can also read odt, so no need for docx just to work with Word users.
Yup
Nice 👍
I built a new PC two months ago and it’s the first time I didn’t get Office. Libre Office has everything I need and it’s free.
I’ve wondered about free suites like these - how do they make money, do you know?
They don’t. Libre Office is maintained by a non-profit called The Document Foundation. They’re funded entirely by donations. I think they make enough to have some full time employees.
A lot of open source software is created by individuals or non-profits. The Mozilla foundation makes Firefox, for instance. They make money through donations and also Google pays them a ton of money to be the default search engine.
There are for profit companies that make or contribute to open source software. Such as Red Hat. They tend to make money by selling support for the software.
I don’t think they make money. It’s an open source project where people donate their time as far as I know.
EDIT: I forgot to mention you can donate to the project. Something has to pay for web hosting, I guess.
A bit of donations, a bit of unpaid people contributing just to help others.
Donations. Volunteers.
Or you know, google docs is a thing which is free and imo works better than word
Google docs is still trash though.
How so?
A web browser is not a word processor no matter how much they tart it up. If the thing isn’t saving a file to my local drive that is in a common format It’s not worth putting your effort into.
So many kids are going to grow up not having the concept where data lives and what the failure modes are.
How so? I think you can export in different formats?
I’d like to normalize the notion that an OS shouldn’t include any application software except for a browser you can use to install other things. Let people pick what they want to use and install it themselves.
Yeah, just download LibreOffice or use a free service like Google Docs.
You can even use Microsoft Word for free online.
The whole argument that “a subscription service becomes necessary” is nonsense.
or just WPS if you hate these and don’t hate China more than Microsoft
use onlyoffice desktop editors here.
Wasn’t there an anti trust or monopoly suite against Microsoft for bundled IE back in the day? Funny how times change, though I agree it’s not easy to get a preferred browser without one. Mean it never was overly simple but they were on so many CDs mailed out back then. Think it has to do with some IE and Windows integration too so not just cause they bundled it.
The problem with IE4 is that it was designed in such a way that it was deeply integrated into the operating system, such that it could not be uninstalled.
It’s completely reasonable now to ship an operating system without a browser, as long as there’s some kind of “app store” or “package manager” through which a user can install whatever browser they want (provided it’s available through said store, of course).
Better yet, the OS should just include a desktop environment with simple utilities and a package manager to install the applications you want. It will make users less likely to run into malware while searching for the programs in the web
It shouldn’t include a desktop environment, I want to be able to install my own.
I mean you can. Most people who interact with computers aren’t that knowledgeable and just want their OS to have usable defaults which is fine.
We’re talking about Windows here, where the desktop environment is too thoroughly intertwined with the rest of the OS to ever remove it. The kind of terminal emulator environment that Linux boots into doesn’t even exist in versions of Windows that have been sold after the early 2000s.
I was talking more in the lines of taking away most of the windows bloat. If someone wants to install their own desktop environment they will most likely go down the linux path.
I think a file manager, text editor and command prompt are pretty essential too. And when you’ve added those, where exactly is the limit where it becomes “application software”?
I don’t have an answer for that, but I know Wordpad is definitely not essential and I doubt anyone would use it if it didn’t come with Windows
I think it’s worth separating the two related but distinct concepts of what is a part of the operating system itself (for example, the actual file manager) and what is pre-installed or bundled with the operating system (games like Minesweeper).
I agree with you that a rich text editor definitely shouldn’t be part of the OS. But should it be a bundled part that ships with the desktop environment, the way Windows/MacOS/Android/iOS/ChromeOS all come with photo library software, basic image editors, media players, browser, email client, etc.? These applications aren’t strictly necessary to use or maintain the system itself, so maybe they shouldn’t have some kind of privileged use of the OS’s functionality, but there’s no harm in bundling in the installation defaults.
I don’t think a rich text editor is an important enough function to necessarily be preinstalled with the OS, but I can see an argument, at least. There’s a reason why Windows shipped with one since the beginning, and why MacOS and KDE and Gnome each have a default that very few people actually use regularly.
Yeah, even Apple includes the iWork suite (Pages, Numbers, and Keynote) for free on Macs and iPads, no subscription needed.
The cost of the full Mac apps and OS is in the cost of the hardware. At least it’s one upfront cost. Surely the way windows is going can’t be popular or sustainable.
As it should be. We pay for it on Windows and Mac…
piracy theme intensifies
Office is one of the easiest things to pirate. It 1. is very popular 2. has an official mass-activation way that can be easily exploited. I suspect we may have a spy in there
Or, y’know, just use LibreOffice with the tabs setting and contextual groups if you can afford experimental features
or if you still hate the UI just use WPS instead, who cares that it’s awful and from China you don’t have to payAlso, why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??
why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??
Main reason would be full compatibility with Office documents.
Also, why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??
Because Word and Powerpoint are what they know.
Let me clarify what I meant. I am saying that we pay for the OS which includes applications on both Mac and Windows. Only Mac gives us a free suite of office applications.
Ah, I get it now.
But you can pirate Windows for the exact same reasons.True
Tbh I use Notepad way more than anything for note making.
If it needs to be formatted, OneNote is free to use and can be saved in any cloud (if there is a shortcut like OneDrive or Dropbox in the Windows explorer)
If it needs to be free and not very sophisticated, I’d look around for a markdown based editor.If all of that fails, I will use Word.
Never used Wordpad in 15 years (of 24 years of existence) except while trying to open word but Windows suggesting Wordpad first.i use wordpad a lot for viewing docs (loads faster, uncluttered ui). occasionally writing them… and more than once instead of notepad for a text file (on a system without a notepad alternative available) because i needed more features.
i have a few clients that use wordpad as their ‘word processor’, lack of spelling check be damned.
microsoft must have run out of excuses for specifically not including one in it, seeing how recent windows has spell check baked-in to the os itself. so instead of losing a few dozen sales of office home and student or 365 by making wordpad just a little bit better for those who use it, they’re gonna be the assholes and take it out completely and push everyone to the damn cloud app or a 365 sub. fk 'em.
It has it’s uses. Not for me but some are definitely need it. Problem is, how much effort is it to keep it around vs how much is it used realistically.
Best way forward would be to replace it with a completely different app like Word online but as an actual app lile Word Lite or something like that.
I only use emacs to write TeX notes.
Google Docs is free and has basically become the standard word processor for the “unsophisticated users” you’re worried about. It essentially comes with your OS because you only need a browser to use it.
I think your kid and his children will survive.
Making things in Google Docs is fine, but last I checked Google Docs just sucked at opening anything that wasn’t already a GDoc. LibreOffice Writer sometimes has formatting errors opening Word Docs, but it does a miles better job than Google Docs.
Also, I hate how normalized everything using the cloud (aka “Someone Else’s Hard Drive”) for no reason is.
Well to be fair to Google (urgh, that hurt to write) that’s by design, and LO doing so well at it is due to investing a lot of engineering time on it. Basically MS released an open standard for office documents, but refuses to use this open standard themselves, and instead keeps using an ever evolving “transitional” version of their standard that isn’t made public.
it still has strings attached, its not truly “free”. heck, google won’t let it be word pad had no ties to Microsoft once it was given to you. everything else but LibreOffice and some others still have its creator’s ties.
Advertise and push Foss substitutes like libreoffice.
could go a step further and bin windows altogether.
granted, it’s a big step for most.
Love Linux, love windows. 'ate mac, simple as.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=oDezECR9ga4&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Likely scenario, honestly.
I really don’t worry about it, though.
Not to brag, but it doesn’t bother me.
Understand, there is a solution.
X marks the spot.(Yeah, I know, that’s kind of stupid. But it seemed funny in my head.)
I can’t read you
I’ve given everything, but you seem distant
I can’t feel you
Your heart is somewhere else, it’s missin’
What if I read back to you?
You have a piece, but there’s two
Someone please get this reference.
Then they ask their grandson or work it dept what they should do and both will answer libre office is free
It’s too bad Linux isn’t more normalized. For those very simple users (and for the more sophisticated) Linux is probably much better than Windows at this point.
No ads, free software, updates can be very simple and stable, less security issues.
This is very upsetting to me–more as a point of principle than in fact–but I appreciate that it doesn’t bother younger generations at all.
I am in a support group with over 100 senior citizens in it. Getting a file with a *.rtf extension used to be a thing, but it hasn’t been a thing in years. I do get *.doc and *.docx files so they’re probably getting lured into Office like you said even before Wordpad is removed.
I disagree. I don’t think a rich text editor should be part of the OS as it’s not there to operate the computer. An OS should be the tools to run applications and manage your computer. There are a bunch of apps which are so small that it makes sense to include them - like a calculator and text editor, but everything else should be optional.
There should be an OS out there for you which doesn’t come with a rich text editor. [If there is ever a time to mention GNU+Linux in a MS thread then now is that time.] For most people however, not including it is a needless barrier to entry.
Why in gods name don’t you use libre office. It’s so much better than word and excel for rent
Because libre office is not compatible with many others. You can open it sure but there’s no guarantee that opening .doc or .docx will have broken formatting. Not good for those in the academia or workplace where formatting are strictly enforce.
Absolute bullshit. Microsoft moved to the Open Office document standard after they were forced to and Libre is renown for its ability to open Microsoft’s documents without issue. I have opened countless personally.
Do yourself a favour and get off the junk office suite that hasn’t received a functional update in the last 10 years that wasn’t to improve its rent charging capacity.
I used it for my damn resume because I didn’t have word, didn’t need office. I also liked it because when friends asked me to review a document I could open word documents with it, I would do that sometimes even when I had office because WordPad opened faster and I didn’t need perfect formatting.
I think it is safe to say that your 11 year old is factually wrong lol. But it is okay that they don’t understand how bad this is because the concept of how multiple businesses have switched to subscription based models even in places we wouldn’t expect, like a monthly subscription allowing already installed hardware in your car to actually function, cause it’s just 11 year Olds don’t have a great concept of bills and money at that level yet. I say wait for their first complaint of it as an adult and then put on your carefully choreographed and practiced “I told you so” dance
Okay kidding aside I think it is absolutely wonderful this is something you didn’t just have a conversation with your young kid about but that you had to agree to disagree, you sound like a fantastic parent who actually fosters a relationship with their kid. And probably only rarely says I told you so.
WordPad was a fast and efficient way to view doc files without loading into LibreOffice or any other office suite, or to make rich text documents quickly. But alas, we have to go to the cloud for our notes now…
Honestly, what is the point of Wordpad when you have Notepad and Word?
Not everyone has the money for a copy of Word. There once was a time when free rich text editors were valuable. But at this point I agree it isn’t needed anymore. There are plenty of FOSS alternatives to word that hit that market. Microsoft has probably kept it around this long to prevent people from looking, but now they’ve put their bet on cloud services.
There are plenty of FOSS alternatives to word that hit that market.
Plenty? I know one and its fork. That’s about one and a half.
EDIT: Oh, you probably meant the rich text editors like Wordpad, not text processors like Word. My bad for misunderstanding.
ScintillaTE is an old-ass one. Most people have never heard of it, and those that have have only heard of its variant, UniSciTE, which came bundled as the default text editor for Unity, something like 15 years ago.
I didn’t know Joeffice had a fork. What’s it called?
Knowing the Internet, it would be Joemom, I presume? :)
Assuming you are talking about OpenOffice and LibreOffice, there’s also CollaboraOffice (although this may be counted as another half one, since it’s a online fork of LO) and OnlyOffice in the FOSS sphere. Probably more out there I’m not aware off.
I think AbiWord is still around, which used to be the FOSS simple, WordPad-like word processor of choice.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/free-office-online-for-the-web
Word is available for free now
Not all of us have Word, and Notepad doesn’t have rich text or the ability to open .doc files.
LibreOffice is free
And huge. And bloated, if you only need simple functionality.
Abiword is pretty nice and not too bloated from what I remember
Except it will nuke .docx formatting. Same in reverse.
I make templates for my clients and I always tell them not to open and save in any other client other than OpenOffice.
Even Libre does nuke some parts to some extend…It’s not that bad and always improving. I inter operate the two every day.
OpenOffice is a dead project.
Every time I open anything open office in Word everything is scattered as is usally with the Word meme when moving a picture 2mm.
Libre aint much better. Also I prefer the OpenOffice design. Libre might be more modern and that’s usually what I prefer but I feel like OO is more efficient with it’s menu.
Can’t beat the menu ribbon from Word/Office though.
Have you tried the Libreoffice ribbon menu?
No as my work is using open office and Ihad some issues creating them with libre and then using it in OO.
Outaide of that we have M365 and have no need to go Libre as I can’t see me spending time to relearn it at work.Sounds good though. If I am ever switching to FOSS in that department, I am willing to take a look.
I really like the form options and export to pdf of OO/Libre.
You’re assuming everyone is a power user. There will be thousands of people who won’t have an alternative and think that paying for word is the only option.
This is to fuck over the casual computer user who doesn’t know better or alternatives. Microsoft already knows that more informed users like us are a lost cause to upsell.
This is also why they tried that “malware” pop up to get people to go back to Edge. To once again, fuck over uninformed users.
Abiword is FOSS and would be my choice over Wordpad anyway.
It has been literally twenty years since I last heard any mention of Abiword!
I probably haven’t thought if it for like 10 years myself but this post reminded me of it. I remember maybe 15 years ago using a portable version of it on a USB drive, and it was amazing.
Honestly I’m not too bummed, especially with open-source solutions like Notepad++, but it’s the end of an era! Also, Word is paid, and so Windows not having a built in free RTF editor is notable
Windows not having a built in free RTF editor is notable
Yeah, that is a bit odd, but then again when’s the last time you’ve seen something other than a cut-rate eBook in RTF? Everything is either some variant of plain text or a DOC file these days.
Plus, it’s rare that you ever need to edit RTF files. Read, sure, but that could be handled by Word Viewer, which is free.
EDIT: Right, they’re discontinuing the viewers, but apparently they have a cloud-based online thing that’s free? Sucks if you live somewhere with crap internet I guess.
A lot of ebooks seem to be more epub or pdf these days. RTF isn’t used quite so much.
RTF is a rarity these days since basically every phone, tablet, and other handheld device can handle either PDFs or HTML (and ePub is basically just a ZIP file with HTML in a specific naming scheme and structure). Back in the day though you’d find RTFs more often for use in budget/jury-rigged eReader options. It’s much easier to parse, if nothing else.
WordPad (or at least uses to) opens much faster than word, but still has rich text. Perfect for some short notes.
Or eg to edit an ini file. They display as readable text in WordPad and not just a massive long string like in notepad.
It’s nowhere near as bloated as Word but you have many more options than Notepad when it comes to formatting and presentation. It’s actually impressive how much you can do within the limits of RTF.
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Also try editing unix or Mac line endings in notepad
lightweight notes with margins
Easy way to distribute rich text documents to users without them having to install anything.
I use notepad super often as a copy edit paste aid. It loads in a millisecond.
@jeffw @dantheclamman Wordpad is better for coding
How do people use Wordpad for coding? I’ve never seen that done. If I ever open code in an editor with a “bold” button, I screwed up and close without saving.
He must be thinking of notepad. Which I mean, I would not choose to code in Notepad but I wouldn’t actively avoid it like I would wordpad.
WordPad was often used if a file was too big for Notepad, over 64 KB. But now there are better options.
It’s the “I got to change 1 of code” editor.
The “my IDE didn’t recognize the file type and opened it in here by default” editor.
deleted by creator
Idea! A programming language where text formatting has syntactic meaning! Variable declarations must be italicized! Function calls underlined! And every line justified, of course.
Yep, violence it is then. Just like the lines: justified.
If Chicken can be a language, that can be a language!
And I don’t mean the actually useful programming language. I mean the esolang one where the only valid character is Chicken.
Whatthefuck
Fair enough
of course, gotta push more people to that godawful office 365 crap somehow
I mean, I use LibreOffice, but for people not that tech savvy it sucks they won’t have a basic rich text tool included with Windows.
Am completely expecting this to be due to falling office sales or fear that people will realize they don’t need expensive Office every few years when WordPad has 90% of functionality for daily use.
I expect this will make a lot of people very angry since I know many users of WordPad.
To be replaced by a link to WordPad Bing AI Edition
Ew. I’m annoyed by how correct you likely are.
Upcoming:
Direct image link“Not able to generate content that is biased.”
Well that’s a fucking lie.
It already exists btw: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/clippy-by-firecube/9NWK37S35V5T
I love Clippy. It’s cool that he can answer all kinds of questions and stuff like that, but I only got him to be a little desktop companion. I wish he had a little more personality to him. His jokes are dry and he’s always saying that he’s my Windows assistant. His “conversations” can be cute at times, I just wish he wasn’t so relentless in his pursuit to assist. I don’t really need help from Clippy, I never did. I need Clippy’s companionship.
—Andrea, 2023-08-22
read it in Gilbert Gottfried’s voice.
Subscription-based, like freaking Solitaire
Only thing I used it for was when older versions of Notepad couldn’t handle larger text files. Now it can. So, no loss to me. Notepad going away would suck, that does at least get occasional use although Notepad++ is far superior.
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Notepad is, in fact, under active development. They recently upgraded find and replace so it works 90% of the time instead of 30% and added some annoying restore session by default feature. not to mention tabs
I hadn’t noticed tabs! I’ll have to check that shit out!
I’d never had an issue with find and replace, but then I tend to install notepad++ straight away.
I interviewed at Microsoft decades ago and found a bug in notepad during my interview when they gave me a laptop and asked me how I would test notepad.
Their faces indicated that this was not supposed to be a productive exercise.
did you get the job?
I am forced to use windows 11 in some capacity for work and the notepad on it is actually really nice.
it will deprecate WordPad with a future Windows update as it’s no longer under active development
It doesn’t need “active development” because it is perfect the way it is. Unix/Linux has tons of useful programs that haven’t been in active development for 40-50 years.
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Notepad is just a barebones text editor. I doubt there were any substantial changes since Windows 95, other than ensuring it runs on a 32 and later 64 bit infrastructure, and the menu works with newer releases. That sounds like a 1h per quarter job at most.
Windows 11 notepad is wildly different than what we’ve known with good ol pre-11 notepad.
Ah, interesting. I’m still on 10.
11 sucks but notepad and explorer are pretty nice.
I haven’t been using Wordpad for 20+ years. Notepad could do everything it does already. Then, you also have Firefox’s built-in inspect to tinker with code on the fly.
Word pad is a rich text editor.
Slightly annoyed about this, as I do use Wordpad (it’s lightweight and useful for quick notes that I want to mark up with bold and italic). I don’t always want to watch Word or Libreoffice load for twenty to thirty seconds.
Shitty decision, happy to be Wordpad’s one fan.
They must not be able to spy on people thru it
This place really hates MS. Can’t believe some of the comments here.
Yeah it’s really strange. I’m not a fan of MS by any means, but I’ve found myself making so many pro-MS comments on Lemmy just because the userbase leans so heavily pro-Linux and anti-MS.
Lemmy and other Fediverse sites tend to attract folks who prefer FOSS. Early Reddit was that way too!
It’s not just preferring FOSS, though – it’s as if people have to publicly perform their hatred of Microsoft.
thats what anger does usually
Pillorying Microsoft has been a FOSS tradition for decades
It shouldn’t be that strange. Linux nerds are a huge Lemmy demographic.
Much more up on new technology, FOSS, and privacy issues etc. than the general population. Good fit for Lemmy.
And then getting downvoted by people who just disagree with your opinion. I’m one of the Reddit refugees so I don’t know if we brought that with us or Lemmy was like that before but it’s sad to see.
That’s why downvote buttons exist? If you want to express your opinion on the internet, go ahead, but you should be prepared for the possibility that it might not be a popular opinion.
Downvote buttons are meant to be used for comments that don’t contribute to the discussion or are plainly completely wrong, not for opinions you disagree with. But most people can’t stand being disagreed with on things they feel passionately about, so they will still downvote where they merely disagree.
You might need to brush up on the difference between theory and practice.
It’s just that it’s boring. I’d rather have an interesting debate. Downvoting everything you simply disagree with just leads to groupthink forums.
Those downvotes aren’t stopping you from having a discussion. They’re just hurting your pride.
That’s why downvote buttons exist?
No (and not downvoted) … it’s about controlling visibility.
https://join-lemmy.org/docs/users/03-votes-and-ranking.html
My take: Upvote the stuff other people should see. Downvote the stuff that should have never been here at all. You don’t have to agree or disagree, you can even have no opinion. But if you find it worthwhile to others, upvote it. Detrimental, downvote it.
Maybe there should be four buttons:
- Upvote-good comment
- Upvote-agree
- Downvote-disagree
- Downvote-unhelpful/rude
Which could be used for more filtering options.
Or maybe a separate agreement/disagree metric. I wouldn’t mind seeing the consensus on a topic separate from the measure of usefulness.
MS has a history which informs what their fututre actions are likely to be. If you can’t believe the comments here perhaps you have not heard that history. If you have then consider that lemmy is free software and so you’re more likely to find that way of thinking here.
My goto for distrust of MS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
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My goto for distrust of MS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
There’s not a single reference on that page that’s less than 20 years old. Yes, Microsoft did some anticompetitive stuff back when Bill Gates was CEO, but it’s absurd to suggest that that still “informs what their future actions are likely to be”. A lot has changed since the 1990s.
What has changed which means they should be forgiven or trusted during these 20 years? What does a Linux subsystem for Windows prove? They want users to run Linux apps in Windows so their users will be less tempted to not use Windows… so they can add more anti features for profit.
I guess you are completely unaware of the fact that a huge chunk of the Azure infrastructure runs on linux now. MS also knows that in the enterprise space, companies use linux in their server infrastructure also, so their employees need to be able to work in linx as well. MS has versions of SQL and I believe also exchange that run on linux. WSL isn’t just about appease neckbeard wannabes.
I don’t understand why MS using Linux gives you trust in MS. MS leaked documents (over 20 years ago too) showed they considered free software a serious competitior (including Linux). Makes sense they would use it, so what?
I was working in the industry like I do now when that happened. I was disappointed the antitrust trial didn’t break up MS into three companies. Things have changed there. I guess we should dig into your past and hold everything you’ve did 20 years ago against you?
Ballmer was the driving force behind that mentality and he’s been gone from MS for a very long time.
Would breaking up big tech software companies have the same effect as it does with regular companies? I can’t shake the idea it won’t really work. People don’t want the 2nd best free (gratis) mapping software.
I guess we should dig into your past and hold everything you’ve did 20 years ago against you?
If one has not tried to sincerely make amends or doesn’t appear to have changed then it’s resonable take past actions into consideration?? I still see Microsoft making anti-consumer moves and they ain’t making Windows free software (free as in freedom).
Apple is a LOT worse than Microsoft these days
Not to mention the amount of people who think this is about notepad.
I mean, not many people are in the loving Microsoft camp. Tolerate maybe.
A broken clock can be right twice a day. Unless someone keeps playing with the dials.
As a former user, and an hardcore fanboy, I loved MS and Windows. They made computers accessible for the general public. The OS and the office suite were great. The sheer amount of available software for it was phenomenal. They even decided to publish games, which meant quality!
Until they decided to break things.
XP was a great OS, Vista wasn’t. Then 7 was back to being good just for 8 to be not as good. Then Cortana and Edge and the push for cloud computing.
What worked, worked well and was actually useful was changed, removed, phased out…
GNU/Linux is not without its dramas and difficulties but we can expect a good degree of continuity between each version of a software (I’m looking a you, Gnome!). And if we’re that hell bent on having that specific specific piece of software or OS setup, well, we can.
MS by contrast just chucks the good things out and doesn’t even let them floating around as something users may add to their system.
Does someone remembers the PowerToys collection?
PowerToys is very much live and available for download. I use it daily.
I’m guessing you’re pretty young, then.
I would have never thought so many people would be pissed about Wordpad. Fucking Wordpad! It’s terrible! And Ms isn’t killing it to get office subscriptions because no one fucking uses it! They’re killing it because it isn’t worth the effort to maintain. There are so many free alternatives that are better.
I can count on one hand the amount of MS products I’ve vaguely enjoyed using. Most things seems to be designed with the attitude that people will be using this whether they like it or not, making the user experience fucking awful. Nothing wrong with shitting on them.
I get that people here hate MS, but defending Wordpad is a bonkers hill to die on.
It’s complete wank.
“It was perfect”? Windows was always crap.
I don’t like Apple but they ship their devices with everything a basic user needs and if a high quality, completely for free. When you get a MacBook you don’t need to worry about finding and downloading an external app for almost anything - from viewing any kind of file, to basic photo and video editing, to document processing, etc. And they don’t track every minute thing you do and act like malware to try to make you use their products.
