• queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    With Biden, Democrats are mostly falling in line behind the genocide. It’s a bipartisan genocide, with even Bernie being unwilling to support a ceasefire. With Trump, on the other hand, Democrats would reverse course and actually support a ceasefire to obstruct Trump.

    -but that’s all speculation. I don’t know, for sure, that it would happen that way. What I do know is I won’t vote for genocide, and I will withhold my vote unless Biden changes his policy on Israel. I won’t vote for Trump, I’ll even vote Dem down ticket, but I won’t vote for genocide.

    You, on the other hand, are literally voting for genocide if you support Biden. You just want to absolve yourself of that moral responsibility.

    • rbhfd@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      You just want to absolve yourself of that moral responsibility.

      That’s exactly what you are doing. You’re focusing on this one issue, retreating yourself from the binary decision because neither options stands for what you (or I, or morality) would prefer. Completely ignoring that withdrawing from the choice plays into the hand of the infinitely worse candidate. So by not choosing, you do nothing to stop the situation in Gaza, but might actually make things a lot worse for people all over.

      You can virtue signal that you did not compromise on your believes, while actually helping your country make a worse place.

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        You’re focusing on this one issue

        We’ve raised lots of issues. The amounts of the stimulus checks, the way he fucked us over with the BBB, the way he negotiated down for student loan forgiveness, for fucking over the rail workers. The list goes on. Every time we mention something we get shut down. For someone who wants our votes so badly you have a really odd way of showing it.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            The stupid thing was to vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries. Those people can go fuck themselves.

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                I voted for Obama twice and Biden once. Call me whatever you want. At the end of the day, do you need my vote or not? If you want it I’ve given you the terms: don’t elect procorporate trash in the primaries.

                • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  So…. You’re fine with Trump then? Thats what you’re saying.

                  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    I’m fine with the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries electing him all by themselves in 2024. They fucked over my interests in the primaries so they can go fuck themselves in the general.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Like I said, there are so many other issues that Biden has betrayed me on. This is just the red line. Here and no further.

        You will let Biden do anything he wants to you and beg for more, just to stop Trump. It’s revolting.

        If enough Democrats pressured Biden to endorse a ceasefire by withholding their votes, he would! He’s a politician. That’s what politicians do. This is our only leverage! This is all we can do to stop the genocide, and I really think Biden would reconsider if it looked bad enough.

        • Doug Holland@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          We must always always always vote for the turd in every election, for if the turd doesn’t win we’ll be stuck with turd plus vomit.

            • DrZoidbergYes@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              So what is your alternative? Don’t choose the lesser evil and accept the greater evil? What rising up are you doing?

              • Nudding@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Well if trump wins, it’s fascism and genocide and climate apocalypse. If Joe wins, it’s genocide and climate apocalypse. Y’all need to fuckin rise up lol.

                  • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    By “rise up,” what these kids mean is that they’ll stay home on Election Day and whine on the internet until they realize no one is listening. Then, they’ll cry their eyes out while asking “why!!!” when Trump wins.

                    Just like they did in 2016. You won’t be able to blame them though, because it won’t ever be their fault. They’re infallible.

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                By not voting for Democrats one of two things will happen: Most likely they’ll continue shifting right because that’s what all those pro-corporate pieces of shit want to do anyway. Or the party will finally move to the left. I really don’t care which way they go. But I’m done rewarding them for being obstructionists.

                  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    Funny that’s how I see all the people who went into the 2020 primaries and decided to vote for Joe Biden. How fucking privileged do you have to be to lose the 2016 election and then think “I’m still gonna vote for a procorporate trash candidate even though other people I’m depending on to win the general have made it perfectly clear they’re fed up with these procorporate trash candidates.”

                    People who voted for Joe Biden in the primaries are pieces of shit who apparently need to be reminded again: they need our votes to win.

              • Nudding@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                You’re right. Business as usual neoliberalism will fix the climate! Joe doesn’t mind signing off on more land for drilling, neither does Trump! They’ll be dead in 10 years and won’t have to witness the climate apocalypse lol!

    • UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Good job playing into the hands of the conservatives. If they can’t get your vote they’ll push arguments like yours in order to win.

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Good job playing into the hands of the conservatives.

        Tell Joe Biden to stop fucking over voters he’s depending on.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            We slide farther to the right with each passing year regardless of which party wins. You all seem fine with the direction so we’re just upping the timeline. If you want to go in a different direction tell Joe Biden to stop fucking over voters he’s depending on. And tell anyone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries they’re a fucking asshole.

            • CarniMoss@lemmings.world
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              10 months ago

              I thank god I’m not this illiterate. What do you think Trump’s policy is gonna be? He caters to Republicans who WANT funding to Israel. He pushed the Overton window. What do you think he’s gonna do? Is he gonna weave them baskets and pick them flowers? 🤔

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                I think he’s going to be obstructed by Democrats, who I am voting for down ticket. I think he’s going to ruin Israel’s relations with the rest of the world and turn it into a pariah state. I think he’s going to overextend himself and fail. I think he’s a fat old man and might just die lol

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                I don’t think we’ll have to wait for Trump to see war with Iran.

                I guess we’ll see what the next 9 months brings.

                • Drusas@kbin.social
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                  10 months ago

                  I’m pretty sure Iran is actively and deliberately pressing the US and its allies to engage in a more widespread war by encouraging and provisioning the Houthis in their current terrorism against unaligned trade ships in the Red Sea.

                  Kind of like how the US is providing unneeded military aid to Israel. Encourages Israel to “go for it” against their enemies. Two sides of a coin, but with Iran being more deliberate in wanting war because Israel is vastly outnumbered by its neighbors and they think they can eradicate it.

                  The US doesn’t want to eradicate the Palestinians; they just don’t care enough about the people stop it. The Iranians want to eradicate the Israelis.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                    10 months ago

                    Israel is actively and deliberately pressing all of its neighbors to engage in a more widespread war by constantly bombing them and assassinating their officials.

    • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      But why did this particular flare up in the Palestine-Israel conflict be the hill you’ll die on? Why, for example, didn’t Bidens support for the Saudis against the Houthis, which is much worse by most standards, put you off?

      Secondly: how do you think you’re helping the Palestinians by helping to replace Biden with Trump?

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        It was Biden going around Congress to give Israel more bombs blow up civilians that really set me off. He didn’t do that for Saudi, he didn’t do it for Ukraine, and he certainly doesn’t do shit like that for Americans who need him to bypass Congress.

        Second, I don’t think Trump will be any better or worse than Biden on Palestine. That’s why I’m not voting for him.

        But I will not vote for genocide. I’d rather die.

        (and I might, since I’m a trans communist in a red state)

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          Are you sure Trump won’t be worse on Palestine? He was doing their diplomatic legwork all through his term. Moved the embassy to cement Israel’s claim over Jerusalem.

          Biden went around congress and stopped weapon sales to Saudi Arabia thus stopping their genocide in Yemen.

          Trump actually vetoed congress on the same issue so the genocide could continue.

          Effectively, by refusing to stop Trump to spite Biden, you are choosing for two genocides instead of one. On top of all the other things.

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              Well in the real worreldd, US voters are too weak to fix a broken democratic system. This should be addressed by, best chance, taking over the dnc from within and moving towards a supermajority that supports a better system.

              But today, tomorrow,… Untill that is fixed: the trolley problem is real. To give someone else control of the trolley does nothing to fix the systemic problem. You might think so. Your gut tells you letting things explode might wake up enough people to start a revolution. But history shows it doesn’t.

              You can vote to limit genocide and work towards fixing the system, without compromising the other

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                Your vote lends credibility and mandate to the regime. Your vote says “yes please, I want more of this”. They don’t care that you are actually voting to minimize the damage, they only care that they can do anything they want to you and you’ll beg for more just to stop Trump.

                Like I said, if this is a trolley problem then we have to derail the trolley.