Depends on whether we go by morality or legality. I think intolerant people who break the existing laws dont get to demand tolerance and protection of the same laws they broke.
Important distinction is that everyone posting in this chat would have been a nazi if they grew up in Nazi Germany. That is how insidious it is. Not one of you would have been ‘part of the resistance’. Its horrific how easily people are whipped into a frenzy.
BS. There are still a handful of decent and ethical people in the US. They are a minority but they still exist.
I think a lot of people don’t understand what it is like growing up in a regime like the actual Nazi one. They fantasise about being ‘the resistance’ but it is far more difficult when you live under such horror.
The downvotes kinda prove ny point tbh.
That still doesn’t justify their actions tho.
If my hypotethical Nazi self got all my current memories 10 seconds before someone in the resistence shot and killed me, I would support their action, I deserved it.Nothing in what I said tried to justify their actions. I’m trying to convey that what people see as “nazi” actually are people who have been suckered into the horrific mindset much like the German public were. They aren’t always bad people, just brainwashed. Look at the downvotes I’m getting. “It couldn’t be me! I’m absolutely virtuous, I could never!” Actually, its horrible but it is possible that the majority here would fall for it. It is the most venomous and insidious brainrot there is. You would likely not be immune.
Stop being a nazi, and you won’t get beaten, shot, etc. Simple as.
I’m a firm believer in treating others the way they treat others.
So no, Nazis aren’t human. They are vermin, carrying disease. A cancer on the world that should be cut out with a big knife.
And if those fuckers can’t handle being handled the same way they handle others, then they should rethink their entire way of life.
As long as those fuckers want to gas others, I want to gas Nazis.
A lot of people seem to think that there are evil people and good people. And the main problem I have with that is that it lets the evil people get away with being evil. They’re just evil. Can’t help it. It’s their nature.
But the true horror is that people are just people who decide to do good things, neutral things, bad things.
Hitler chose to do all those evil things.
And that’s important. Because anyone anywhere can turn out to be an “evil person”. The people who went to school with Hitler as kids probably played whatever games they all played, told each other jokes… and then he ended up choosing to do evil things.
People on your street or in your apartment complex right now have chosen to do evil things, from molesting children to killing people. They look normal, you probably say hello in passing, they might have held the door open for you at the store.
But the good news is that people can also choose to do good things. You always have that choice. You can always choose to do better. You can always choose to do what you can to make the world a better place.
I have ADHD, and I’m very vocal about it. For one, it is a big part of who I am. It has caused me so much difficulty in my life.
But after my amputation, they assigned a therapist to me for a couple of sessions to make sure I was handling it okay. I was, because I’d had to have a partial amputation behind my toes nine months before and that had not healed, so by the time we decided to amputate below the knee, I was ready for that all to be over.
So since I was doing fine[1], we took the chance to talk about some other things - just chat, for one. But he mentioned that as he walked the halls, he had heard me apologizing for things like being verbose and scattered, mentioning my ADHD. But he said he also noticed that I went out of my way to try and cheer up peoples’ days, greeting them, asking about them, joking with them, trying to make them laugh. And he said something that made me tear up then, and even now as I type this out: It’s not my ADHD that caused me to act that way. I chose to try and make people happy and brighten their day. That was my choice, and I should remember that.
And believe me, with all the failures I’ve had in my life, to hear someone say something positive hit me hard. I’ll never forget what he said.
But in the same way: You choose what you do. You can’t choose what happens to you, only how you react. You choose how to treat others. You choose whether you try and make the world a better place, or a worse place.
Which is not to say that you need to sell all your stuff, donate it to charity, and beg on the streets or something stupid like that. Take care of yourself and your family. It’s all about balance. But you choose how to find that balance. So choose better, where you can. Make sure you’re taking care of yourself. Make sure you’re taking care of others. Doesn’t mean don’t speak out against evil, that’s part of making the world a better place.
It’s something I need to constantly remind myself because someone is always wrong on the internet, but I need to treat everyone with respect and try to assume good faith. Although also not engage with trolls. It’s easy to be drawn into arguments.
But anyway. I think it’s just important to remember that all people are, in fact, people. And every single one of us chooses to do good things or evil things. And to me, that increases the horror of someone who constantly chooses to do horrific things.
I thought it was interesting that he said most people who didn’t lose it traumatically - like I hadn’t - similarly usually were doing fine like I was ↩︎
Yes! We very much agree with this, there are no inherently evil or good beings, just actions and choices.
We tire of people acting like there are inherently evil or good beings, heck, even people with certain personality differences (we refuse to use disorders) or certain mental illnesses can still choose to do good things, it isn’t ever inherent that they will choose to do bad things.
We’re all a product of societies, our upbringing and those around us. The world can be made better if we all choose to be better and show those around us a better way of life.
If we choose to show them a worse way of life and treat them poorly then they will learn from that, either choosing to do bad things or apologising all their life for existing etc.
Thanks, that’s great stuff and I tegular to must of what you say.
I suspect we’re both very idealistic people, which drives that outer behaviour?
I’ve often wondered where that came from - is hard to separate my gross Churchey upbringing in my case
I’m definitely idealistic and I generally expect the best from people. My default assumption is that we all want what’s best for all of us.
I did have a severely religious upbringing - I grew up a fundamentalist Southern Baptist. heh. Not sure how much of it came from there. I think it came from my base personality plus the ADHD, though. heh.
Their violence is just a silent cry for love.
And they still deserve to be shot.
That’s very fucking important.
Their parents never had time for them.
And yet they still have free will. Many people work their whole lives to not be like their parents. And they know exacrtly what their parents did wrong.
Their parents wouldn’t even know what their kids grew up to be
Yeah, their boots yearn only for some tenderness.
They always have a sneer in their smile.
For the uninitiated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cqcy0U7Frk
Always remember that everyone is human. Once you designate someone as inhuman, you can ignore the fact that you have just as much capacity for evil as they do. They aren’t some monstrous creature. They’re someone who, by the circumstances of their birth and their childhood, became the person they are today. This doesn’t absolve them one bit but it’s helpful to understand if only for your own sake.
Agreed. As long as we both agree they still deserve the bullet
How many Germans would you have executed in 1945? A third of Germans voted for Hitler 1933 and many more supported the Nazis materially and socially in the decades since.
So would you let Auschwitz run for another couple years while shuffling 10 million Germans into the gas chambers? 25 million? 50 million? What would you do with the millions of children you orphaned? What of the children who are swearing revenge? Do you wait for them to turn 18 before sending them to the gas chambers?
Nazis don’t deserve the bullet. The bullet is often the best we can give them, but it also often isn’t. Daryl Davis did good, and there is a decent chunk of leftists who had a “Nazi phase” because they had to learn solidarity by themselves and I’m glad they got out, whether it was by their own power or by people choosing to help them.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for deciding a Nazi isn’t worth the effort and giving them lead instead. I wouldn’t even blame people for saying Nazis are inhuman or deserve the bullet as coping mechanisms when fighting Nazis in a necessary war.
But if we have the time, then let us see them as people who don’t deserve the bullet but who endanger others so much that a bullet is an acceptable solution.
Bro what the fuck is this comment? If you push yourself to where you will physically go kill or oppress someone else for your nazi beliefs that is when you deserve the bullet. If you are just on the fringes of the ideology you can still be saved, but if you are actively enforcing it, fuck you. Then yes we need some rigid education to teach the children why their father deserved to die. And if the education doesn’t work, then society should be able to push their views in the right direction through our complex social dynamics. And if that doesn’t work then I guess we just have another fucking Nazi to get rid of. Yeah.
Now if you’re done confusing my intentions, I think I’m clear in my statement.
So you’ll execute a concentration camp guard who couldn’t find any other job to feed his family as the bombs were raining down, but not a Nazi-voting rich bloke who laughed in glee when his Jewish neighbor was dragged into a van to be executed?
Or is enforcement not actually the criterion?
This is why I asked you how many Germans you would execute. It’s a good indicator for what your standards are, how distantly removed one needs to be to deserve the death penalty in your opinion.
And of course killing a large number of people is going to have to be done somehow. If you truly believe X million people deserve to die, what is the problem with using the conveniently located camps that were just used for killing Y million people?
I’m not 100% sure if you’re so put off by this specifically, but if killing several million Germans in Auschwitz reads to you as an insulting parody of your beliefs rather than as poetic justice, then ask yourself again if you truly think in your heart of hearts that they deserve to die.
If you’re fine with using Auschwitz as (one of) the site(s) for killing millions of Germans who have given their unconditional surrender, disregard the above paragraph.
So refreshing to see someone so sensitive and sensible <3
Well, as a wise man once said: “Bullets don’t discriminate, they only penetrate”
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Nazis need to be convinced they’re wrong. I understand they represent the worst of the worst of humankind because they they think everyone not nazi must be killed, but if you start to think every nazi must be killed, there is that mirror symmetry effect that nazifies your mind. It is too simple to say kill nazis, though it is widely accepted, it cannot be a response. Teaching and explaining, and yes, sometimes re-education must replace killings. Gegen nazis though, but better is to prove them wrong.
Nazis need to be treated the same way they treat others.
As long as those fuckers want to kill others, I want them killed.
And if they can’t handle that, then that is their problem.
Remember the time when we defeated the Nazis with love and hugs? Yeah, me neither.
You can’t teach them. It is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, they’ll strut around shitting on the board acting like they have won. Humane execution is the only solution.
“If you don’t tolerate the intolerant you’re the same as them”.
That’s not it chief.
Tolerating and not flat out murdering people are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. I agree that Nazism as an ideology cannot be allowed to continue if society is to progress, but simply killing all the people who disagree with you does more harm than good
It is not about harming people who simply „disagree“. It is about protecting the weak against a murderous mob. Don’t get that mixed up.
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there’s a time and a place for rehabilitation, and that time and place is not when they are in power
This exactly. Nazis will always exist, and there needs to be a sustainable and ethical solution to combatting that. Rehabilitation is that answer when they do not pose a serious threat. Violence is that answer when they do pose a serious threat. The dilemma is also on an individual basis.
I used to work at a houseless shelter. When I worked there, there was a neo-nazi who was accepted into our services. Whether I liked it or not, I was in a position where I needed to help this person. He was not an immediate threat, although he occasionally tested that boundary. He was an example of a neo-nazi who needed rehabilitation.
Meanwhile I was once at a Palestine protest where a neo nazi tried to join us. We told him to fuck off and he refused to leave. So he got punched in the face.
The answer to the nazi question is relative to the time, place, and other context. In a society like ours where neo-nazis hold power, violence is necessary against those that uphold it. In an anarchist society with a handful of neo-nazis who arent actively physically harming people need to be dealt with through rehab.
But also slogans, mottos, memes, and such dont really have room for nuance so… its okay to punch nazis!
Debate has never been an effective method of challenging Nazi ideology but in some cases (undeserved) compassion can be effective in moving people towards deradicalization
That being said, your first and foremost responsibility is to protecting the vulnerable. If you are in a position to help someone deradicalize in their personal life that is good, but it is morally wrong to allow people to be subjected to their ideology (both its violence and rhetoric) and inadequately protect those people, or simply challenge their ideas verbally dragging vulnerable folks through exposure to hate and dehumanization
I think its also important to remember that while deradicalization is a good thing, it is unbelievably emotionally laborious and never a guarantee, and can only ever work at an individual scale. I don’t think you could just “hugs and kindness” your way out of the Nazi regime. It is not a meaningful way to solve the larger problem
you must convert so many nazis into kind loving people every day
Nah fuck that. Shoot em in the gut and make their family watch them bleed out.
Ok but this varies heavily on case by case basis. Some 20 year old disillusioned kid whos a nazi needs to have his mind changed. Some 50 year old US senator that is also a nazi needs to be shot.
It really is the most compassionate thing to do.
