A sharply divided Supreme Court has ruled that the Biden administration overstepped its authority in trying to cancel or reduce student loan debts for millions of Americans.
Dems have the Senate and the Presidency and are completely within their power to pack the Supreme Court and basically alter all of the terrible rulings the Supreme Court has made lately. The problem is that many Dems do not think it is worth packing the court for women, students, or the environment. You can’t just vote your way out of this as you would literally have to pack up and move to West Virginia to vote for a Senator who would be ultimately determining this.
The system is ultimately flawed and just voting isn’t enough.
Ultimately I feel this is certainly more difficult and makes my criticism of inaction now invalid as Dems do not hold enough of a majority to pass legislation; however I do still see them as responsible for inaction when majorities have been held throughout my lifetime.
A) They need 50 senators willing to entertain that notion. They only have 49.
B) If there were one action that I think would be most likely to kick off Civil War 2, it would be packing the court.
Civil War 2 is already happening, you must not be paying attention.
It’s time to rip off the fucking band-aid and do something about it instead of letting the Proud Boys, the Three Percenters, and others run around terrorizing the country through wanton violence and death.
They are not completely within their power to pack the court, sadly. They would have done so already if this were the case. They need 60 in the senate as well as a majority in the house and the presidency. Then they could.
Excuse me but to my knowledge the House is not needed for appoint judges, the president nominates and the Senate votes to appoint. The Senate would simply need a majority and I’m pretty sure Dems have the majority in the Senate.
Damn. If only the system gave representation per capita instead of for arbitrary reasons to get slave owners to agree. Shucks. I guess we just have to accept it and get back to work. /s obviously.
The House is not needed to appoint justices, but the size of the Supreme Court is set by federal law, and you need the House to change that law to go beyond nine justices.
I think you’re probably right as it looks to be something involving the Judiciary Act of 1869 but I’ve also heard that only the senate is needed to do this even today.
Obviously not a lawyer and ultimately it could have been done by Dems prior to the midterms so they would still be responsible for not packing the court earlier.
I’m still not sure they had that option. It was something mentioned in various campaign platforms, and dems are very upset about current events with it. We might see some movement prior to elections? Not sure.
Technically, they don’t need 60. The cloture rule is what necessitates a 3/5ths supermajority to pass bills, but the cloture rule is not itself a law and so Senators can just… change it with a simple-majority vote. This has already happened twice in the recent past: once in 2013 when the Democrat-led Senate voted to eliminate the cloture rule when nominating federal circuit judges and once more in 2017 when the Ruplican-led Senate voted to eliminate the cloture rule when nominating supreme court justices.
FWIW: Senators tend to really hate doing this. They call it the “nuclear option” because they normally like to get a 2/3rds supermajority agreement before changing any standing Senate rules – not to mention that the cloture rule itself is often treated as a total third-rail even among the other important Senate procedures. Combining the nuclear option and killing cloture is a massive political powderkeg waiting to explode… but maybe it should?
It’s a shared norm. Part of the deal is an implied promise that the other guys also ignore the big red button. Really, though… that ship had already sailed years ago leaving the cloture rule to hang on by the barest of threads. I’m half-convinced that the current Senate would have already done away with it if only they had a slightly more reliable voting margin.
IMO: cloture is a dumb rule because we already have a robust system of checks in the form of a bicameral legislature plus presidential veto. The requirement for a 2/3rd supermajority in addition to these for regular everyday business is odious and something that no other large democracy does. I’m anti-gridlock on principle alone, even if I acknowledge the absolute chaos it will probably plunge the Senate into for the next dozen years or so.
I like how when Democrats are in power, they’re unable to do anything…
But when Republicans are in power, they break the law at lightning speed, do things they’re not supposed to do, and nobody stops them because actually the only thing staying in their way are “rules” and “decorum” and not “laws” and yet mysteriously the Democrats are always beholden to “laws” that prevent them from doing the same. Also it seems like Democrats hands are tied at actually bringing criminal charges against Republicans because that would be “partisan.”[1] Just look at how they’ve slow-walked Trump’s prosecution and only went for it when it became clear he would never comply.
You’re saying that as if the Rs won’t do the same thing anyway without prior provocation. They’ve literally already broken the law to pack the court and the Democrats sat on their hands. They denied Obama picking a justice because it was “too close to an election” when the election was like six months away, but let Trump pick one when an election was already underway.
Take off the fucking blinders, the Republicans already do these kind of things.
Republicans are channeling full fucking fascism and you think the only thing keeping them from packing the already packed republican court is because Dems haven’t done it first?
R’s don’t care about precedent. That’s why they actually get what they want. If Democrats actually got things done, they would consistently win elections and it would be be an issue anyway.
Yeah 3 million fewer votes too. Just vote your way out of an oligarchy guys! The ruling class totally will let you and wont gerrymander or make constitutional amendments to give term limits to only Presidents…
Without a socialist party (as in, completely purged and free of all bourgeois influence), there’s isn’t a whole lot worth voting for at the federal level. Democrats repeatedly show that they are incapable of resisting the Republicans and take L’s constantly (see here).
I encourage everyone to instead organize with local political orgs that can eventually build this power. The DSA being the largest currently available (and just as flawed as the other options one may have, ofc)
I agree with your assesment of the DSA, but our audience here isn’t ready for that. I want them to get into the DSA where we can continue trashing on them until they do something more useful.
They aren’t going to go from defending Democratic Party failures to Maoist Third-Worldist guerilla fighters (the correct sect of socialists, of course) overnight.
Damn, I was hoping for a well documented compendium of Democrat L’s that have been taken because they’re too cowardly to stand up for their constituents.
Vote! Encourage those around you to vote. Help drive someone to the polls. If you know a young person who’s never voted, get them to vote.
Don’t care who they vote for, just get them to the ballot box.
The more people vote, the better things turn out for the majority.
I know this will likely upset many Dems but:
Dems have the Senate and the Presidency and are completely within their power to pack the Supreme Court and basically alter all of the terrible rulings the Supreme Court has made lately. The problem is that many Dems do not think it is worth packing the court for women, students, or the environment. You can’t just vote your way out of this as you would literally have to pack up and move to West Virginia to vote for a Senator who would be ultimately determining this.
The system is ultimately flawed and just voting isn’t enough.
Addition after some research:
It looks like the Supreme Court is set in size by law and FDR had some of the same problems so it would be likely that this would take an act of congress and not just the Senate.
Ultimately I feel this is certainly more difficult and makes my criticism of inaction now invalid as Dems do not hold enough of a majority to pass legislation; however I do still see them as responsible for inaction when majorities have been held throughout my lifetime.
With that being said, you’re also correct that voting is NOT enough. Protesting and direct action, mutual aid, and more are all required!
A) They need 50 senators willing to entertain that notion. They only have 49. B) If there were one action that I think would be most likely to kick off Civil War 2, it would be packing the court.
That’s a very selective way of saying the Dems aren’t responsible because Dems wont support students, the environment, or women’s rights.
Civil War 2 is already happening, you must not be paying attention.
It’s time to rip off the fucking band-aid and do something about it instead of letting the Proud Boys, the Three Percenters, and others run around terrorizing the country through wanton violence and death.
Democrats wouldn’t pack the courts
That would be uncouth, you know, decorum is after all VERY important
I also think the Parlementarian said no
They are not completely within their power to pack the court, sadly. They would have done so already if this were the case. They need 60 in the senate as well as a majority in the house and the presidency. Then they could.
Excuse me but to my knowledge the House is not needed for appoint judges, the president nominates and the Senate votes to appoint. The Senate would simply need a majority and I’m pretty sure Dems have the majority in the Senate.
Unfortunately the dems do not have a true majority in the senate either. It hasn’t been as easy as we hoped to get everyone on the same page.
Damn. If only the system gave representation per capita instead of for arbitrary reasons to get slave owners to agree. Shucks. I guess we just have to accept it and get back to work. /s obviously.
The House is not needed to appoint justices, but the size of the Supreme Court is set by federal law, and you need the House to change that law to go beyond nine justices.
I’m sorry but I can’t find anything on there being law setting the size of the Supreme Court but only precedent.
Would you happen to have the name of this law?
Found it and it looks like FDR had some fights of a very similar nature.
I’m fairly sure they would need the house to expand the court and add more justices.
I think you’re probably right as it looks to be something involving the Judiciary Act of 1869 but I’ve also heard that only the senate is needed to do this even today.
Obviously not a lawyer and ultimately it could have been done by Dems prior to the midterms so they would still be responsible for not packing the court earlier.
I’m still not sure they had that option. It was something mentioned in various campaign platforms, and dems are very upset about current events with it. We might see some movement prior to elections? Not sure.
Technically, they don’t need 60. The cloture rule is what necessitates a 3/5ths supermajority to pass bills, but the cloture rule is not itself a law and so Senators can just… change it with a simple-majority vote. This has already happened twice in the recent past: once in 2013 when the Democrat-led Senate voted to eliminate the cloture rule when nominating federal circuit judges and once more in 2017 when the Ruplican-led Senate voted to eliminate the cloture rule when nominating supreme court justices.
FWIW: Senators tend to really hate doing this. They call it the “nuclear option” because they normally like to get a 2/3rds supermajority agreement before changing any standing Senate rules – not to mention that the cloture rule itself is often treated as a total third-rail even among the other important Senate procedures. Combining the nuclear option and killing cloture is a massive political powderkeg waiting to explode… but maybe it should?
I guess full throated fascism and authoritarianism isn’t enough to consider a “nuclear option.”
It’s a shared norm. Part of the deal is an implied promise that the other guys also ignore the big red button. Really, though… that ship had already sailed years ago leaving the cloture rule to hang on by the barest of threads. I’m half-convinced that the current Senate would have already done away with it if only they had a slightly more reliable voting margin.
IMO: cloture is a dumb rule because we already have a robust system of checks in the form of a bicameral legislature plus presidential veto. The requirement for a 2/3rd supermajority in addition to these for regular everyday business is odious and something that no other large democracy does. I’m anti-gridlock on principle alone, even if I acknowledge the absolute chaos it will probably plunge the Senate into for the next dozen years or so.
I like how when Democrats are in power, they’re unable to do anything…
But when Republicans are in power, they break the law at lightning speed, do things they’re not supposed to do, and nobody stops them because actually the only thing staying in their way are “rules” and “decorum” and not “laws” and yet mysteriously the Democrats are always beholden to “laws” that prevent them from doing the same. Also it seems like Democrats hands are tied at actually bringing criminal charges against Republicans because that would be “partisan.”[1] Just look at how they’ve slow-walked Trump’s prosecution and only went for it when it became clear he would never comply.
It’s a fucking farce.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/19/politics/fbi-doj-trump-investigation-january-6/index.html ↩︎
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A
Wouldn’t the Rs just do the same thing next time they have power? I get what you’re saying, but isn’t setting that precedent dangerous?
You’re saying that as if the Rs won’t do the same thing anyway without prior provocation. They’ve literally already broken the law to pack the court and the Democrats sat on their hands. They denied Obama picking a justice because it was “too close to an election” when the election was like six months away, but let Trump pick one when an election was already underway.
Take off the fucking blinders, the Republicans already do these kind of things.
They already set the precedent.
Republicans are channeling full fucking fascism and you think the only thing keeping them from packing the already packed republican court is because Dems haven’t done it first?
Fair enough.
Yes- the court is an illegitimate anti-democratic institution and the long-term goal should be its abolishment.
It is the final tool of the American oligarchs to prevent needed structural change in the country.
Anything to highlight this is a good thing. Playing ping-pong with court expansion would be great to accelerate its necessary demise.
I agree
R’s don’t care about precedent. That’s why they actually get what they want. If Democrats actually got things done, they would consistently win elections and it would be be an issue anyway.
It’s not going to happen anyway, though.
Voting put three justices in-place with last president.
Yeah 3 million fewer votes too. Just vote your way out of an oligarchy guys! The ruling class totally will let you and wont gerrymander or make constitutional amendments to give term limits to only Presidents…
Of course it upsets the Dems knowing that they’re on the only side that has to govern well and we honest.
But the alternative is for our side to be as much of a malignant tumor on the country as the other side is.
I’ll take this version of the Democratic party, despite the fact the Republicans are trying to destroy the US and rebuild it in their own image.
Our side?
I’m sorry, I don’t side with oligarchs.
Joe Manchin sure does. Nancy Pelosi sure does. Chuck Schumer sure does.
Oopsie poopsie.
Gotta make sure your investments are safe by being a member of congress.
Without a socialist party (as in, completely purged and free of all bourgeois influence), there’s isn’t a whole lot worth voting for at the federal level. Democrats repeatedly show that they are incapable of resisting the Republicans and take L’s constantly (see here).
I encourage everyone to instead organize with local political orgs that can eventually build this power. The DSA being the largest currently available (and just as flawed as the other options one may have, ofc)
If you don’t feel it’s worth keeping as many Rs out of Federal roles, then no amount of examples are going to change your mind.
You can’t ignore the federal level because the Dems aren’t liberal enough.
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I agree with your assesment of the DSA, but our audience here isn’t ready for that. I want them to get into the DSA where we can continue trashing on them until they do something more useful.
They aren’t going to go from defending Democratic Party failures to Maoist Third-Worldist guerilla fighters (the correct sect of socialists, of course) overnight.
Your see here link is empty and you accidentally double-posted this comment, friend.
Yeah just fixed that, “see here” was meant to refer to this student debt situation in the OP
Damn, I was hoping for a well documented compendium of Democrat L’s that have been taken because they’re too cowardly to stand up for their constituents.
(in case anyone wants a summary off the top of my head)
Could expand on that? Any good methods to vote out a Supreme Court Justice?
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