Germany’s centre-Right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party and the centre-Left Social Democrats (SPD), which are holding coalition talks, have proposed a law that will block people with multiple extremism convictions from standing in elections.

https://archive.ph/yNQwE

  • Realitätsverlust@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    4 days ago

    The big issue with any form of attempted suppression will not suddenly sway their voters. It would be much smarter to not give people a reason to fall for populists.

    But that would be too easy, I guess.

    • federal reverse@feddit.orgM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      7 hours ago

      But that would be too easy, I guess.

      It’s absolutely not easy at all. Afd acts like a cult, getting people de-radicalized will take a lot of effort. And politics that emphasizes societal solidarity and education about democracy, culture, etc.; instead we have gonservatives gutting funding for all of these topics.

      • Realitätsverlust@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        13 hours ago

        You seem to think that everyone who is voting for the AfD is radicalized, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Many people who voted for them just saw it as the only option for change. We had CDU/SPD for over a decade where the standard of living declined constantly, then we had red yellow green which tanked it completely - that’s almost every party we have available on a national level. The only options are left and AfD, and I’m gonna be honest, the left does not sound appealing to people who understand economics.

        Knocking the AfD down to sub 10% would be rather simple - politics just has to shift into a direction where it’s pro-population, not pro-top1%. Plenty of stuff could be done to ease the economic pressure of the population, but they rather ensure that people stay at the right I guess.

        • federal reverse@feddit.orgM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 hours ago

          Many people who voted for them just saw it as the only option for change.

          You’re right, these change-for-change’s sake people do exist. And I don’t know what to say to them, except maybe that if they just excitement in their lives, going bungee-jumping might be better than voting neonazis into power. Their existence seems like a failure of political education too.

          But, there’s another, probably much larger group of people who were sucked into propaganda channels that run divide & conquer strategies on society. Much like the change-people, they are barely political but they can be mobilized by irrational fears, like Lidl selling chocolate bunnies being a precursor for their own forced islamization.

          In your post, the combination of this “The only options are […] AfD” and this “politics just has to shift into a direction where it’s pro-population, not pro-top1%.”

          … is utterly baffling. Right-wing parties, AfD, Fdp, CxU, etc., are quite explicitly pro-special interest, not pro-populace. The further right, the more special the interests. And sure, these parties claim they are proposing common-sense “non-ideological” “sane” ideas while actually ignoring science, ignoring precedent, ignoring negative outcomes for society. That’s their whole MO. If you don’t want the 1% to profit, then maybe just don’t vote anything right of the SPD (and even SPD is a questionable choice in that regard).

          the left does not sound appealing to people who understand economics.

          Interestingly enough, the economic proposals contained in the last election platform of the Left party were the most financially solid among all parties in that election (as detailed by multiple institutes, e.g. ZEW [de-DE]). The Left were the only party where the state was least burdened with unexplained money outflow that would be prohibited under the debt brake.

          Is it possible that by “people who understand economics” you mean the group of people that currently profits from existing inequality? I.e. the 1%ers and the 10%ers. Because that’s the people who would “suffer” from the Left’s proposals (actually, while they’d make less money, they’d most likely live in a much more physically secure society).

    • Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      Nope, if the AfD gets banned, the entire structure and funding crumbles. It will take decades to build up this kind of Nazi momentum.

      • Realitätsverlust@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        3 days ago

        First of all, no, that’s wrong. The AfD got to where they are in 12 years, and that was from 0 - do you really think it would take them another 10 years to get to the point where they are now?

        Second of all, it STILL would not convince the people that the AfD is wrong and they would just fall for the next right-wing populist party. So even if it would work, it would only be a temporary solution to a major issue.

        • Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          3 days ago

          First of all, no. They won’t exist and can’t establish anything similar if the party gets forbidden. They won’t be able to do shit.

          Second of all, there is no next right wing populist party like that.

          That’s the whole reason to ban a party.

          • federal reverse@feddit.orgM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            7 hours ago

            Tbf, if you remember, the Afd started out as a party critical to European integration and the Euro in particular. They were right of Merkel’s CDU and they were dumb but they were not fascist. But very, very quickly, they were infiltrated in various ways by people and funds who were previously entangled with the NPD (now “Heimat”).

            And there definitely are a bunch of other right-wing parties that ex-Afd people could hop onto: Werteunion, Bündnis Deutschland, yada. It’s reasonable to ask how quickly this would happen. The real solution is actually teaching democracy and living democracy, from a young age, and with the chance to actually have a real impact.

            • Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 day ago

              At the very least, it’d buy us more time to educate the masses. But I’m not optimistic that this will work. Social media needs to die first for that and that’s not likely to happen. Tossing some lies around via bots funded by Russia is so, so much easier than refuting said claims with facts. People have no interest in spending time and effort to do research. Plus the short format content being pushed everywhere completely destroys people’s capability to focus on anything that take more than 20 seconds.

              Banning the AfD will also make sure that the same people can’t work together anymore. They’ll have a very hard time building up something like this again. At least in the foreseeable future.

              • federal reverse@feddit.orgM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 day ago

                At the very least, it’d buy us more time

                That it will.

                to educate the masses. But I’m not optimistic that this will work. Social media needs to die first for that and that’s not likely to happen.

                I am less pessimistic. But I do think ownership structure of social media needs to change.

                Banning the AfD will also make sure that the same people can’t work together anymore.

                Legally? Like forcing people to find new circles of friends? I can’t quite imagine that.

    • gazter@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      It’s like banning marijuana and then expecting people to just not do it.