As animal liberation is one of the subject in which I am the more active, let me try to get you to understand my view on this subject as a vegan.
First, yes this is a systemic change and only individual changes would never amount to anything. The commodification of animal life is driven by profit. Currently this is the material basis for it that is then justified via speciest ideology. However, consumption is not neutral. The problem does not start at consumption but it is in part maintained by it.
For me living as a vegan it feels like a political statement that I’m expressing at a minimum 3 times per day around other people. This is praxis and helps challenge the exploitation that is pervasive in our society. It shows we can and must do better. It is in itself a small act and of course this won’t overthrow the specieist system and capitalism, it helps however raise collective consciousness about the issue and shows solidarity with the oppressed animals.
As most vegan will tell you, being vegan is not the end of the road, it’s only the start. Organize around the subject. Join political movements, join organizations that support workers transitioning out of these industries. Promote systemic changes/alternatives.
Finally let me answer to your last point: “the animal is already dead”. I feel like this is a really bad argument. Just because other people decided to do a terrible action does not mean you need to compromise your values and partake in it. Imagine yourself applying the same logic to humans. Especially when in the grocery store you might have alternative close by (think any legumes) that might be cheaper.
Imagine going into a store where there are two kinds of shirts. One is created by slave labor and the other is not. Would you accept someone saying, well I’m used to the kind of t-shirt created by slaves and these are already made anyway so why would I bother choosing the other? My point is of course if your medication contains animal product no animal liberation militant or vegan will berate you for using it, but when the alternative is literally 5 feet away in the same grocery store or a few blocks away then the arguments stops working.
You can draw a parallel to what Lenin says about compromises in “Left-Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder. A striker compromising with their oppressor because their strike fund is empty is not the same as a strike-breaker “compromising” with the oppressor. Some compromise are justifiable, others are not. Here you are “compromising” with your morals because you’re used to meat.
For me living as a vegan it feels like a political statement that I’m expressing at a minimum 3 times per day around other people. This is praxis and helps challenge the exploitation that is pervasive in our society. It shows we can and must do better. It is in itself a small act and of course this won’t overthrow the specieist system and capitalism, it helps however raise collective consciousness about the issue and shows solidarity with the oppressed animals.
i agree with this immensely and feel the exact same way about wearing a mask and being covid-safe as well. systemic change is needed but that doesn’t mean that individual actions mean nothing.
Imagine going into a store where there are two kinds of shirts. One is created by slave labor and the other is not. Would you accept someone saying, well I’m used to the kind of t-shirt created by slaves and these are already made anyway so why would I bother choosing the other? My point is of course if your medication contains animal product no animal liberation militant or vegan will berate you for using it, but when the alternative is literally 5 feet away in the same grocery store or a few blocks away then the arguments stops working.
You can draw a parallel to what Lenin says about compromises in “Left-Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder. A striker compromising with their oppressor because their strike fund is empty is not the same as a strike-breaker “compromising” with the oppressor. Some compromise are justifiable, others are not. Here you are “compromising” with your morals because you’re used to meat.
That’s a fair assessment. I have been justifying it to myself by thinking, If I were to go out and hunt a dear or catch a fish, it would be disrespectful to take something’s life AND be wasteful with it… but that’s not really the same thing. It’s a hunter-gatherer framing that doesn’t translate to this situation.
Yes I agree, you and I are not living in a survival situation. We all have a lot of brainworms regarding animal exploitation that we must fight against as it has become so normalized nowadays in almost every aspect of our life. Cognitive dissonance makes us justify things in ways that if examined rationally or applied to other scenarios we would discard immediately.
A substantial amount of meat is lost as avoidable wastage so you could argue that the supply is independent of demand given that it current primary purposes (from a policy perspective) are as a sink for highly subsidized and overproduced commodity grains and as part of generating the illusion of abundance
Removed by mod
As animal liberation is one of the subject in which I am the more active, let me try to get you to understand my view on this subject as a vegan.
First, yes this is a systemic change and only individual changes would never amount to anything. The commodification of animal life is driven by profit. Currently this is the material basis for it that is then justified via speciest ideology. However, consumption is not neutral. The problem does not start at consumption but it is in part maintained by it.
For me living as a vegan it feels like a political statement that I’m expressing at a minimum 3 times per day around other people. This is praxis and helps challenge the exploitation that is pervasive in our society. It shows we can and must do better. It is in itself a small act and of course this won’t overthrow the specieist system and capitalism, it helps however raise collective consciousness about the issue and shows solidarity with the oppressed animals.
As most vegan will tell you, being vegan is not the end of the road, it’s only the start. Organize around the subject. Join political movements, join organizations that support workers transitioning out of these industries. Promote systemic changes/alternatives.
Finally let me answer to your last point: “the animal is already dead”. I feel like this is a really bad argument. Just because other people decided to do a terrible action does not mean you need to compromise your values and partake in it. Imagine yourself applying the same logic to humans. Especially when in the grocery store you might have alternative close by (think any legumes) that might be cheaper.
Imagine going into a store where there are two kinds of shirts. One is created by slave labor and the other is not. Would you accept someone saying, well I’m used to the kind of t-shirt created by slaves and these are already made anyway so why would I bother choosing the other? My point is of course if your medication contains animal product no animal liberation militant or vegan will berate you for using it, but when the alternative is literally 5 feet away in the same grocery store or a few blocks away then the arguments stops working.
You can draw a parallel to what Lenin says about compromises in “Left-Wing” Communism: An Infantile Disorder. A striker compromising with their oppressor because their strike fund is empty is not the same as a strike-breaker “compromising” with the oppressor. Some compromise are justifiable, others are not. Here you are “compromising” with your morals because you’re used to meat.
i agree with this immensely and feel the exact same way about wearing a mask and being covid-safe as well. systemic change is needed but that doesn’t mean that individual actions mean nothing.
That’s a fair assessment. I have been justifying it to myself by thinking, If I were to go out and hunt a dear or catch a fish, it would be disrespectful to take something’s life AND be wasteful with it… but that’s not really the same thing. It’s a hunter-gatherer framing that doesn’t translate to this situation.
someone’s life, they are not something.
Yes I agree, you and I are not living in a survival situation. We all have a lot of brainworms regarding animal exploitation that we must fight against as it has become so normalized nowadays in almost every aspect of our life. Cognitive dissonance makes us justify things in ways that if examined rationally or applied to other scenarios we would discard immediately.
I was fine-ish about this comment until here. It’s not dead in the store if people don’t buy it.
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The next animal dies because you commissioned its death when you bought the last dead animal at the grocery store.
It makes it so less animals have to live through industrial horror life. And creates the space in this world where we’re moving past all that.
A substantial amount of meat is lost as avoidable wastage so you could argue that the supply is independent of demand given that it current primary purposes (from a policy perspective) are as a sink for highly subsidized and overproduced commodity grains and as part of generating the illusion of abundance
Ya got deleted but I’m basically the same. I agree with basically everything they say but it hasn’t motivated me to change.
I wonder why their comment was deleted. What’s the point of asking for controversial opinions if people with controversial opinions just get deleted?