The main point was people expecting something drastically different from Baltic/central European food and then being disappointed/feeling superior/Just not seeing and accepting it for what it is. It’d be like going to Vietnam and discounting most their dishes as Thai food because of the similarities.
Northern Europe is a small region in a relatively cold environment in Europe with a low population on relation to many other regions we classify with distinct cuisine. Of course it’s going to be heavily influenced by french cuisine. Of course it’s going to mainly be soups, root vegetables, pies and other hearty food and a bunch of fish.
What I say is weird is discounting those tastes as “not northern european” just because you can encounter like experiences elsewhere.
The weird nationalism people have about food and ascribing it specific nations is just… Frustrating. Borsch is about as northern european as it is Eastern European. Its a hearty beet soup. And its delicious as fuck.
Something that could be said to be specifically northern european I guess would be Smørrebrød, which is a twist on the sandwich. Northern european bread is phenomenal, some of the best I’ve tried in all the places I’ve lived. Rye bread is fantastic.
thanks for the effortreply. i spent a lot of my life in the nordics and while everyone makes fun of british and midwestern american food for being bland and boring, scandinavian food deserves that reputation. obviously the bland food has a material reason behind it, because it’s subarctic and dark, so most of the food is based on salty pork, taters and onions, heavy enough to last you through a cold day. if you like slight variations on that theme then great.
it’s probably my least favourite food region in the world, and it feels weird to call potato and meat home cooking as a “regional cuisine” but i guess it is in a way. not being nationalistic, just not a fan of the style. same goes for most northeastern european food but i think northern slavic food has some more creativity to it and more varied flavors.
which is why my original post was that salty licorice is one of the few flavors out of the nordics which is actually interesting
edit, i also kinda like hasselback potatoes, seafood salad with dill, and swedish sandwich cake which is such a ridiculous thing that it should only be served at funerals so that people have something to ponder. COME TO THINK OF IT dill might be the other cool thing north/northeast europe does that is underused in the rest of the world
thanks for the effortreply. i spent a lot of my life in the nordics and while everyone makes fun of british and midwestern american food for being bland and boring, scandinavian food deserves that reputation. obviously the bland food has a material reason behind it, because it’s subarctic and dark, so most of the food is based on salty pork, taters and onions, heavy enough to last you through a cold day. if you like slight variations on that theme then great.
No worries, this wasn’t near the effortpost I made back then.
I fundamentally disagree with your description of northern European food and I find it reductive. I agree that most northern Europeans make bland food, but so does most Americans and (in the places I’ve lived) south Americans. A few simple and safe dishes that dont really do a lot. But reducing my concept of those regions to just encompassing those dishes, would not be an accurate descriptor of those regions cuisine.
I think one of the reasons food has become like this in so many places, is due to industrialised commercial agriculture churning out the same crops throughout the year and just trying to sell as much slop as possible.
it’s probably my least favourite food region in the world, and it feels weird to call potato and meat home cooking as a “regional cuisine” but i guess it is in a way.
I don’t really see the northern European as being “just” potato and meat. In fact I don’t really count that as a part. Meat didn’t become a real staple, or at least anything other than a meagre delicacy, until the late 50’s which was again due to the aforementioned industry. The very same industry has lobbied hard and marketed hard to make people associate “main dish” with “meat”. Buy some northern European almanacs and look at the recipes and you will find a wide swathe of foods and experiences.
The other reason people just think it’s “meat and potato” is because of racists lobbying to make pork be included in as many places as possible, so as to exclude Muslims. For example in Denmark a large right wing party campaigned to make fried pork with parsley sauce the national dish - despite this dish being french.
This effort is deliberate, you can find clips from then seeing them saying things like “danish food is pork!” Which it really isn’t. People in Denmark eat pork at christmas because pork was a rare treat (excluding sausage maybe and even then not near how much they get now.) You see it in most northern european countries, a deliberate effort to reduce the idea of “food” to be pork and potato so the farmers can make money and the racists can hate.
not being nationalistic, just not a fan of the style.
Did not mean to imply you were nationalistic. I am saying the way we think about most foods is inherently rooted in nationalistic brain worms. We ascribe certain dishes to certain nations and then when we see it in a neighbouring nation we don’t consider it a part of that nations cuisine. Food does not follow borders. Lots of Slavic food is also Northern European food due to them having access to the same foodstuffs and having had like needs for nutrition.
We stereotype a region to a set of key words and then discount anything that does not fit those as “not being part of it”. Likewise there’s also a tendency to reduce cuisine to “warm meals served as breakfast, lunch or dinner” and anything beyond that does not really count. Deserts, bread, heck even salads often get omitted from the mind when thinking of a regions cuisine.
edit, i also kinda like hasselback potatoes, seafood salad with dill, and swedish sandwich cake which is such a ridiculous thing that it should only be served at funerals so that people have something to ponder. COME TO THINK OF IT dill might be the other cool thing north/northeast europe does that is underused in the rest of the world.
Kind of approaching my point about it being more than meat and potato, which I am glad to see. Also illustrating my point of ascribing tendencies to one nation or region and then denying it to others. You’ll find dill used in plenty of other regions.
Edit: I’m not a fan of “new Nordic” cuisine, I find it pretentious and it’s built on exploitation of chefs willingly working for free to “learn” while all they do is shuck oysters for 8 hours a day with no break. However one thing it has done is successfully make people look back at old recipes and start to forage more.
Seriously get an almanac. Meier’s is pretty decent
The main point was people expecting something drastically different from Baltic/central European food and then being disappointed/feeling superior/Just not seeing and accepting it for what it is. It’d be like going to Vietnam and discounting most their dishes as Thai food because of the similarities.
Northern Europe is a small region in a relatively cold environment in Europe with a low population on relation to many other regions we classify with distinct cuisine. Of course it’s going to be heavily influenced by french cuisine. Of course it’s going to mainly be soups, root vegetables, pies and other hearty food and a bunch of fish.
What I say is weird is discounting those tastes as “not northern european” just because you can encounter like experiences elsewhere.
The weird nationalism people have about food and ascribing it specific nations is just… Frustrating. Borsch is about as northern european as it is Eastern European. Its a hearty beet soup. And its delicious as fuck.
Something that could be said to be specifically northern european I guess would be Smørrebrød, which is a twist on the sandwich. Northern european bread is phenomenal, some of the best I’ve tried in all the places I’ve lived. Rye bread is fantastic.
thanks for the effortreply. i spent a lot of my life in the nordics and while everyone makes fun of british and midwestern american food for being bland and boring, scandinavian food deserves that reputation. obviously the bland food has a material reason behind it, because it’s subarctic and dark, so most of the food is based on salty pork, taters and onions, heavy enough to last you through a cold day. if you like slight variations on that theme then great.
it’s probably my least favourite food region in the world, and it feels weird to call potato and meat home cooking as a “regional cuisine” but i guess it is in a way. not being nationalistic, just not a fan of the style. same goes for most northeastern european food but i think northern slavic food has some more creativity to it and more varied flavors.
which is why my original post was that salty licorice is one of the few flavors out of the nordics which is actually interesting
edit, i also kinda like hasselback potatoes, seafood salad with dill, and swedish sandwich cake which is such a ridiculous thing that it should only be served at funerals so that people have something to ponder. COME TO THINK OF IT dill might be the other cool thing north/northeast europe does that is underused in the rest of the world
No worries, this wasn’t near the effortpost I made back then.
I fundamentally disagree with your description of northern European food and I find it reductive. I agree that most northern Europeans make bland food, but so does most Americans and (in the places I’ve lived) south Americans. A few simple and safe dishes that dont really do a lot. But reducing my concept of those regions to just encompassing those dishes, would not be an accurate descriptor of those regions cuisine.
I think one of the reasons food has become like this in so many places, is due to industrialised commercial agriculture churning out the same crops throughout the year and just trying to sell as much slop as possible.
I don’t really see the northern European as being “just” potato and meat. In fact I don’t really count that as a part. Meat didn’t become a real staple, or at least anything other than a meagre delicacy, until the late 50’s which was again due to the aforementioned industry. The very same industry has lobbied hard and marketed hard to make people associate “main dish” with “meat”. Buy some northern European almanacs and look at the recipes and you will find a wide swathe of foods and experiences.
The other reason people just think it’s “meat and potato” is because of racists lobbying to make pork be included in as many places as possible, so as to exclude Muslims. For example in Denmark a large right wing party campaigned to make fried pork with parsley sauce the national dish - despite this dish being french.
This effort is deliberate, you can find clips from then seeing them saying things like “danish food is pork!” Which it really isn’t. People in Denmark eat pork at christmas because pork was a rare treat (excluding sausage maybe and even then not near how much they get now.) You see it in most northern european countries, a deliberate effort to reduce the idea of “food” to be pork and potato so the farmers can make money and the racists can hate.
Did not mean to imply you were nationalistic. I am saying the way we think about most foods is inherently rooted in nationalistic brain worms. We ascribe certain dishes to certain nations and then when we see it in a neighbouring nation we don’t consider it a part of that nations cuisine. Food does not follow borders. Lots of Slavic food is also Northern European food due to them having access to the same foodstuffs and having had like needs for nutrition.
We stereotype a region to a set of key words and then discount anything that does not fit those as “not being part of it”. Likewise there’s also a tendency to reduce cuisine to “warm meals served as breakfast, lunch or dinner” and anything beyond that does not really count. Deserts, bread, heck even salads often get omitted from the mind when thinking of a regions cuisine.
Kind of approaching my point about it being more than meat and potato, which I am glad to see. Also illustrating my point of ascribing tendencies to one nation or region and then denying it to others. You’ll find dill used in plenty of other regions.
Edit: I’m not a fan of “new Nordic” cuisine, I find it pretentious and it’s built on exploitation of chefs willingly working for free to “learn” while all they do is shuck oysters for 8 hours a day with no break. However one thing it has done is successfully make people look back at old recipes and start to forage more.
Seriously get an almanac. Meier’s is pretty decent