Google is developing a Terminal app for Android that’ll let you run Linux apps. It’ll download and run Debian in a VM for you.

Engineers at Google started work on a new Terminal app for Android a couple of weeks ago. This Terminal app is part of the Android Virtualization Framework (AVF) and contains a WebView that connects to a Linux virtual machine via a local IP address, allowing you to run Linux commands from the Android host. Initially, you had to manually enable this Terminal app using a shell command and then configure the Linux VM yourself. However, in recent days, Google began work on integrating the Terminal app into Android as well as turning it into an all-in-one app for running a Linux distro in a VM.

Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture. It’s also preparing to add some settings pages to the Terminal app, which is pretty barebones right now apart from a menu to copy the IP address and stop the existing VM instance. The settings pages will let you resize the disk, configure port forwarding, and potentially recover partitions.

If you’re wondering why you’d want to run Linux apps on Android, then this feature is probably not for you. Google added Linux support to Chrome OS so developers with Chromebooks can run Linux apps that are useful for development. For example, Linux support on Chrome OS allows developers to run the Linux version of Android Studio, the recommended IDE for Android app development, on Chromebooks. It also lets them run Linux command line tools safely and securely in a container.

    • TurboWafflz@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Yeah but I bet google’s one will have lots of cool features like being harder to use and not supporting becoming root and requiring google play services for no discernable reason

      • bamboo@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        If it’s anything like ChromeOS, it’ll be a VM where you can do whatever you want, within that VM.

    • moonpiedumplings@programming.dev
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      Termux recently got moved off of the play store (kinda), and is now only available on f-droid/github, because Google was further locking down what they allowed on their store.

      And in addition to that, they recently added a restriction in later versions of Android: “Child process limit”. Although this limit used to not there, when enabled, it prevents users from truly running arbitrary linux programs, like via termux.

      Although the child process limit can still be disabled in developer options, it doesn’t bode well for how flexible base android in the future will be, since many times corpos like Google move stuff into the “secret” options before eventually removing that dial all together.

      TLDR: Termux has been, and is a thing… for now.

      Also, I want to shout out winlator. It uses a linux proot, similator to termux, and has box64 and wine inside that proot that people can use to play games. I tested with Gungeon, and it even has controller support and performance, which is really impressive.

      • smeg@feddit.uk
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        2 months ago

        I used Winlator at the start of the year just to test out some little itch.io games and it was pretty basic, huge to hear how far it’s come already!

      • Semperverus@lemmy.world
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        winlator can run windows apps on android

        Hey that sounds neat!

        uses ubuntu as a base

        Oh no…

        MIT license

        oh no

        Have to install from github/no F-Droid build

        oh no

        • moonpiedumplings@programming.dev
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          Winlator is really just termux + proot + box64 + wine wrapped in a neat UI (+ controller support). You can, and people have set this up manually before winlator came along. You’ll either need termux-x11 or vnc for the GUI.

          Mobox is a similar project that does this automatically via a script… but I don’t see a license in their github repo, plus they require the proprietary input bridge for touch controls.

    • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Termux doesn’t run arbitrary software. There’s a pretty large set that does but plenty doesn’t. A VM would resolve that.

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        Through termux you can already install a full linux distro on android. It is a little slow, but full desktop environment. Not bad if you have a phone that supports display output

          • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            I didn’t think to check how it worked, other than the graphics part is accessed via a VNC app. If you have a spare phone check out Anlinux on PlayStore or F-Droid

            Anlinux

            This application will allow you to run Linux on Android, by using https://f-droid.org/packages/com.termux and PRoot technology, you can even run SSH and Xfce4 Desktop Environment!!!

            Features:

            • NO ROOT ACCESS REQUIRED!!!
            • Lots of Linux distros supported:
            1. Ubuntu
            2. Debian
            3. Kali
            4. Parrot Security OS
            5. Fedora
            6. CentOS
            7. openSUSE Leap
            8. openSUSE Tumberweed
            9. Arch Linux
            10. Black Arch
            • Xfce4, Mate, LXQt, LXDE Desktop Environment Supported
            • Install multiple distros without conflict
            • Provide uninstallation script to fully uninstall distro
      • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        So is termux a containerized Linux? (I haven’t looked into it yet, just on my list). I had assumed it was a VM, guess I was incorrect.

          • Fonzie!@ttrpg.network
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            2 months ago

            Not even that, Android is enough of a Linux system they really just needed a repo of natively compiled apps.

            • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              …and a filesystem layout. They don’t install things to the “root” linux so they have their own /var, /bin, /usr, etc.

                • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 months ago

                  I doubt it - it runs in an android sandbox. Why would they even bother? it’s easier to just create a filesystem “chroot” and use that. That way you get full read/write and control of versions.

      • vala@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Ehh it kinda does considering you can get a pretty full compiler tool chain running via termux.

    • Quack Doc@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Termux has been a thing for years.

      Termux is not a full linux environment, you need proot (slow) or chroot (insecure) to get a full environment.

      • b000rg@midwest.social
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        2 months ago

        Not arguing, just curious: what makes chroot insecure? I’ve used it for installing Gentoo, but I don’t really understand what it’s doing under the hood.

        • Quack Doc@lemmy.world
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          Chroot = change root, and needs root to do so. Doing anything as root is insecure. escaping a chroot really isn’t all that hard. The second you elevate privledges, you need extra steps to to become secure. Chroot almost never involves any of these steps (though there is some selinux stuff you could do.)

          This is an old example, but still a valid one https://github.com/earthquake/chw00t

  • mindlight@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    Yeah… While making users run Linux applications on a system where Google is root might be a wet dream for Google, it’s more of a nightmare for me.

    I really hate the fact that the vast majority of consumers are perfectly fine with not being in full control of their appliances and that Google (and others) register everything they do.

    • Kairos@lemmy.today
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      2 months ago

      The reason so many people are fine with using corporate garbage is ironically the same reason they’d be just fine using something that wasn’t that. Users can adapt and learn a system way better than most people think.

      • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        It’s the convenience angle.

        I have very experienced IT friends who continue to use privacy invasive crap, knowingly because they like the convenience.

        • flashgnash@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          That kinda thing is a sliding scale for everyone, if my Linux machine wasn’t 90% as reliable and usable as when I was on windows I would probably still be using windows

        • Kairos@lemmy.today
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          2 months ago

          Yep. Because that’s the default. And the corporate garbage says that the other stuff is a worse experience.

          • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Well, it is.

            It’s a lot more work to use not-Google stuff on Android. Which I try very hard to do.

            Now trying to get a family member to install and run anything not from the Play store is like pulling teeth.

    • SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I thought the snapdragon Samsung rooting would be farther along than where we are now. I’m stuck with my phone until further notice s23u

    • Quack Doc@lemmy.world
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      I personally run a custom rom, even with that I find this very exciting, This should balance the Security, Perf, Convience, aspects quite nicely

      • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        So, I’m not that great with Linux. I know the basics, that’s it.

        Is it user friendly? I mainly want Linux with Android app support because I hate Google.

        I’ve used windows my entitle life. Now windows 11 upgrade was done without consent, now they are doing their best to make it even worse then it already was. I would love to switch to Linux, it’s just that I’m using some apps which do not exist for Linux yet. Next to that I’m not that comfortable with the Linux mechanics to make the switch on my main PC. As in: Like I know what I’m doing on the machine which I use a big part of my time. I need full control. I know I have it with Linux, I just don’t know how. And I feel stupid for it.

        The moral of my story is: I’m scared to make a switch from something I’m so familiar with for years and years to something new, even though I hate the corporations behind the stuff I use.

        • sue_me_please@awful.systems
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          2 months ago

          You can test Linux out by using a live USB instance or in a VM. You can also dual boot so you’ll always have Windows available if you need it.

          You can also install WSL on Windows or something like Git Bash or MSYS2 to get a Linux-y environment on Windows.

          • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I have used dual boot, live usb sticks and VM’s. It’s just that I don’t feel that comfortable within the Linux environment as my knowledge is lacking somewhat and I haven’t used it enough to fix that.

    • sue_me_please@awful.systems
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      2 months ago

      Will never happen because of SafetyNet. Google does not want you running Android apps on anything other than their approved Android ROMs.

    • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I’ll just run Linux shit on…Linux

      Android is a variant of Linux, just not GNU/Linux because of not using glibc.

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          With diffs sometimes around 5m lines of code (in case of qcom)

          Nobody’s denying that. Many embedded distributions targeted special hardware are like that.

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          android just uses the kernel

          Yes and the kernel’s name is “Linux”. No other software is named “Linux”. Ask Linus Torvalds if you don’t believe me.

            • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              there’s more to an operating system that a program needs other than the kernel(?)

              Yes, and the other parts have other names, like the toolkit GTK or the C standard library glibc and all those things make up a Linux distribution, like Fedora.

  • lengau@midwest.social
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    2 months ago

    Much more appealing to me is running Android apps on Linux officially. I don’t want to use Android as my main system, but I sure as heck would love to have one or two Android apps available on my Linux Machines.

    • GravelPieceOfSword@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      wayDroid does let you do that, in a fairly lightweight way (uses Linux namespaces iirc, similar to lxc.

      It’s still not full native, which would be even nicer. I play droidfish on my Linux machines using it.

        • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          It also borked the eff out of my system too, and I’m still seeing traces of its lefotver desktop files after uninstallation

        • serenissi@lemmy.world
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          It always worked for me except in some cases the ‘hardware’ compositor (ie the wayland side) is a bit buggy for clipboards and inputs in general. I had issues with lxc network in past but that’s long ago.

          I still don’t understand what borked your system. Waydroid downloads the images, mounts and runs them inside lxc just like normal android. It doesn’t touch your /usr or anything else. Works well in immutable os too.

        • paperd@lemmy.zip
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          Its not the “Linux OS” that we want, but it is Linux, it runs the Linux kernel, so does chromeOS.

          Be cleat about what you want.

          What you call “Linux OS” is actually GNU/Linux, or as I’ve taken to calling it lately, GNU + Linux.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        2 months ago

        I think you misread. They want a Linux phone, not a container for android apps on Linux Desktop. Also, yeah there are very limited options to do this, but most of us can’t yet.

        • JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee
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          Linux phones do exist, I was saying that you could use Waydroid on those devices (although you can also use it on Linux Desktop), such as postmarketOS on eg a Fairphone 5.

          • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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            Okay but they only run on pretty weak(usually because it has to be old) hardware. We need a linux flagship phone.

              • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                As an American, I absolutely would choose a Fairphone if it wasn’t only available through that third party distributor.

  • tate@lemmy.sdf.org
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    an all-in-one app for running a Linux distro in a VM.

    No, it won’t

    let you run Linux apps on Android

    It will let you run Linux apps in Linux

    • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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      Plasma Mobile for Android? 🤔

      Doubtful. A VM doesn’t have access to the underlying hardware (unless explicitly passed through).

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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          not doubtful, a lot of compositors, kwin included can run nested.

          It’s not a question if some of Plasma Mobile could run in that VM. It’s a question if anything usable is possible. I highly doubt Google will make it possible to call phone numbers etc. in that VM.

          • Quack Doc@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            sure, but if 90% of the stuff work work, voip, and it seems to be using crosvm for avf, so those capabilities could be passed through.

    • theshatterstone54@feddit.uk
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      I was thinking the same thing! But it would be running from a Debian VM so I’m not sure how realistic that is. And I doubt it would have access to android apps.

  • Mossy Feathers (She/They)@pawb.social
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    Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture.

    This is the part I cared about. Can it run x86_64 programs, or is it just an ARM-compatible version of Debian?

    If it can actually run x86_64 programs on ARM devices, then that’s kinda fucking sick and would likely help the world transition to ARM. Like, fuck Google, but this sounds like a good thing, maybe?

    • Revan343@lemmy.ca
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      devices with an x86_64 architecture

      Sounds like the opposite of what you want; you would want x86_64 code on devices with an ARM architecture.

      But I didn’t actually read the article, so maybe that line is poorly worded

    • woelkchen@lemmy.world
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      Can it run x86_64 programs

      The article sound like it will work for x86 devices running Android as well. I don’t think this is about emulation.

    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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      That just sounds painfully inefficient (though we’ve been doing stuff like this for decades).

      Arm isn’t as efficient at higher cpu states as x86, and running a VM you’re definitely going to up the cpu usage.

      Still interesting to watch. And every use-case is unique. For the typical short-run process this is for, it’ll probably be fine.

    • Xatolos@reddthat.com
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      No, not unless you have an x86 Android device. While this will run Linux apps, it will be limited to the CPU architecture. Unless there is a x86 to ARM translation layer on Linux that I’m not aware of?

      • Markaos@lemmy.one
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        2 months ago

        box86/box64, and there’s also FEX-emu which is used by the Asahi Linux project (Linux on Apple Silicon macbooks).

      • Nils@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        Unless there is a x86 to ARM translation layer on Linux that I’m not aware of?

        https://steamdb.info/app/3043620/

        It appears Valve is working on Proton for arm64, I was wondering if this is to attend the mobile market, a new Index or maybe a smaller Steam Deck.

    • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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      Steam requires it to be installed in an x86 environment, whether natively, or through emulation (and most x86 emulation has significant overhead and imperfections)

      But java applications should run natively if you supply an appropriate build of java. I have an arm VPS that I’ve hosted several Minecraft servers on without any problems (other than those I created myself) and I also learned by accident that Microsoft’s builds of OpenJDK actually work for (at least some) Minecraft versions that they aren’t supposed to, so I have to wonder if that’s a happy accident or intentional work by Microsoft

  • Xylight@lemdro.id
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    2 months ago

    Irrelevant but the embed thumbnail terrifies me. why is the android fuzzy