This is why we need unions. Shit like this should be a non-starter.
I work in a highly unionised sector, they still monitor our workload when we WFH and personally I welcome it. I know some people on my team took the piss at home and of it’s a choice between them getting caught out or us all having to go back to the office full time, I choose the former.
What kind of work do you do that you can’t measure work done by the actual amount of work done?
We do a lot of casework so we have things that can very between five minute jobs up to an arguably indefinite timeframe in complex cases, just basing it on cases looked at or closed a day can’t account for that, so instead there’s an algorithm on the system that notes if we go other twenty minutes without doing anything, if flagged the managers will look and see if the case justified it, if not you get pulled up to explain it. Never happened to me as yet, or anyone as far as I know.
Presumably that averages out over time, and any given person’s output over time can be compared with their peers. But that would mean management had to take an active hand rather than have some nanny-bot come tattling based on arbitrary metrics that may or may not have any bearing on the actual work being done. Much easier to treat their employees like children.
It should average out, but some people were taking the mick, hence the change.
What dystopia do you guys live in? I’ve worked for some small companies and some corporates and neither did this shit, that really wouldn’t fly here.
It’s illegal in the EU, so probably not there.
It’s legal to spy on your employees in USA?
I’m beginning to think all their tinfoil conspiracy theories aren’t completely baseless…
Why would it be tinfoil? The us culture is very much about hardcore capitalism. They don’t even have unions or proper vacations.
Not true on either count. We just don’t have enough unions and only some of us have good vacation.
We have unions lmao what?!
Well, our ~800 people company has unions too. But they don’t do sh#t for people. And I mean real sh#t. Except for once a year they have a meeting with free sandwiches they eat and then go home. Another year of unions well done… apparently by them.
But my friends working in big technical/industrial corp say their unions are quite strong and they at least care for employees a bit.
So yeah, there’re unions to this day, but their meaning is not met everywhere.
Are you sure your union isn’t helping? No union is going to be run by miracle workers, but that doesn’t mean they don’t improve conditions. I can’t say for sure, but I suspect this sentiment is part of why union membership fell apart in the 20th century “well my union doesn’t do anything for me anyways.”
Like democracy, unions do require some upkeep via people stepping up. If you don’t like how your union is performing, you could consider becoming a rep (admittedly based on my limited understanding as a non-union employee).
Yes, I am pretty sure. I know most people there personally. It’s kind of sad it even exists, pretty much waste of money in this case.
//edit: it’s virtually impossible to become rep in this case. The company is like family business (not real family, but everyone knows everyone since forever kind of thing) and it is like stalemate for everyone both in union and in management. Unions know they won’t do anything without trying hard (and they won’t because most of them are nearing retirement and they want their peace) and management know unions won’t cause them problems, because they’re what they are.
Yeah, they lack personal freedom in USA, it’s just the way it is. Freedom means it’s ok for your boss to spy on you, they’re free to do that and you are free to be spied on. Oh and they get to own a gun which makes them like really really cool and tough.
Indeed it is. There are limits, but not many.
Land of the Free, my dude!
That might be it. The more I learn the happier I am I live in EU.
Kinda I guess.
Installing software to log and remotely access a computer is not illegal. Remember that the computer isn’t yours and that you signed a document permitting it.
Not restricting access and using it maliciously might be illegal though. Idk.
Edit: found this: https://www.worktime.com/12-most-asked-questions-on-eu-employee-monitoring-laws
I’m probably about to get down voted. But as an IT guy, I install tracking software on a very small subset of systems of employees that are pretty much about to be fired for being useless. The reason we do that is basically to catch employees being dishonest. It’s quite possible that the nature of the work makes their productivity hard to gauge. Once we install the software we have some data we can use to push back against outright lies. If we see them spending 75% of their day planning their next vacation instead of getting their work done, they are gone. We don’t install the software unless you are already failing to do your job.
Objection! There is some contradiction in your statement. How do you tell they are already failing to do their job, if you say that their productivity is hard to gauge? If they deliver the expected results, why does it matter that they spend time planning their vacation?
If the employee is already found to be useless, the company can fire them without data from the tracking.
We don’t know they are useless, that is just the suspicion. The nature of the work is that sometimes output can be impacted by forces outside of their control. If we wait long enough, the pattern will be obvious, but why pay someone to not do work when we can just install software on their computer that will almost immediately let us know that they aren’t even putting in full days?
I honestly don’t get the opposition to this kind of thing. You’re on your work computer, not your own device. Use the work computer for work and use your personal devices for personal stuff. If your contract says you work 40 hours per week, work 40 hours per week.
It is a failure of the manager if the subordinates’ work is only measured by hours worked but not with the KPIs. High-quality work by smart employees are much more valuable than employees who work slowly in front of the computer and making lots of mistakes costing the company more money at the end.
Some people (I’m super guilty of this) are terrible at paperwork. They get in there and fix a problem. Then they fix another problem. Then another. They don’t prioritize documenting the things they fixed, because they see the next broken thing as more important than some paperwork.
Then we get to the end of the week. That employee hasn’t finished their assigned work because they spent half the week fixing problems. Only it’s four days later and they don’t remember all the things they fixed earlier in the week.
Is this an unproductive employee? They were set a task and they didn’t complete it. They have little to show for the time they worked this week.
I hate tracking software and would never want it on my computer. But, I can see it being employed to demonstrate productive employees flying under the radar just as easily as it shows employees slacking off.
Some of us just don’t draw big signs and say ‘look at me!’ They just get in there and get stuff done.
I used to do that at work. Helping customers get their needs handled rather than dicking around on the computer telling it what I did all day. I got called into the office and removeded out.
Then I started slacking off and “cooking the books”. Got brought back into the office and complimented on how much more productive I had been 🤷
There are no KPIs that can reveal the reason for the lack of output in many cases. The issue is when the KPIs are bad AND there is evidence that the employee is not putting in the effort to correct them.
You know… It would be really useful to have a tool (software or usb stick) that can detect all kinds of commonly used boss-ware and tell you what exactly is being monitored/captured by what exact software. Sounds like a business I’d like working for
Companies that employ this tech probably also block USB peripherals (besides input devices)
The USD stick can be a rubber ducky :) acting as an input device to do its magic
Anyways, dreams dreams
What kind of ghoulish engineer works on Time Doctor’s software and is able to sleep at night?
If you care about privacy; you tell your employer clearly that you do not tolerate “Boss-ware” or other spyware on your personal devices.
If they give a shit; they will then be forced to issue one that the company owns and manages. If they don’t give a shit; you walk away. Lots of companies will hire you without that crap. Don’t believe people who gaslight you by saying “But every company uses it!” or anything sounding remotely like it.
On a company-issued machine; you tell your employer clearly that you do not tolerate “Boss-ware” that will be used to track or manage your time. Walk away; if they refuse to keep your machine clean of it or attempt to raise any concern that you’re not at your PC every damned moment of your core hours. You have a right to live your life. As long as your immediate bosses and supervisors are happy with the quality and quantity of the work you submit, you’ve done your job. If they are unhappy with the quality or quantity of your work then, they can respectfully schedule a meeting with you to discuss it. The way an actual adult should be treated, and, would be treated in an actual office that observes all standard rules of professionalism. With respect.
TL;DR: Do not accept the implementation of Boss-ware as if the decision was made with any professionalism or respect for you. If they implement it; you leave as fast as possible. Take any friends that you can with you too, if you can.
As an aside; there are USB devices which can act like keyboards and mice; some of which are very clever and intricate. You can use them to your advantage while using work-issued equipment; but keep in mind you’ll need to program it on your personal PC.
You can definitely get creative with some of them and have them simulate the typing and clicking of a lot of different things at random intervals.
Can someone with knowledge please provide links, lists, specifics, because all the articles I find list like, 3 names: “Teramind, Time Doctor, StaffCop, and others.” I want to know what “others” are, how many there are, etc etc. I am actually getting quite frustrated with these articles because they talk very generally about some nebulous hypothetical dystopian employee monitoring software, without actually just fucking telling me what the fuck to look for.
that’s both unreasonable and not the right way to approach this. Your assumption is that if you knew the names of all possible processes that you could then be in a position to make better decisions. the problem is names are useless - it’s trivial for software to run under different names, so believing names can help you somehow is a waste of time.
This is blatantly false. Name and fucking shame each variety of software. These cockroaches can’t stand the light of public attention. The more people who know how to spot and identify malicious and suspicious boss-ware behavior, the better. It protects the user to know that the software exists; as they can better be prepared to combat and deter abuses of this software by unprofessional and shitty bosses.
No; it isn’t going to be foolproof. That’s not the intent here. The intent is for everyone to be able to name, shame, and identify when software that their employer is deploying is going to be behaving in a manner that blatantly violates their rights to privacy in a non-constructive way that threatens them.
Hmm OK so I’m going to have to be a bit sneakier than that then.
Just assume anything that work controls is monitored by your work. And act accordingly.
Don’t install work software on personal devices. And you’ll be fine
If you’re on their device, assume it’s a giant surveillance device. If you’re forced to do company work on your device, stick it in a VM.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In Australia, a woman said she was fired from her consultant role after her employer’s monitoring software found “very low keystroke activity” on her laptop between October and December.
Time Doctor has seen business pick up over the past few years as remote work has taken off, Borja said, and the return-to-office movement hasn’t eliminated the demand for employee-tracking software.
A March Resume Builder survey of 1,000 US business leaders with a primarily remote or hybrid workforce found that 96% of them use some form of employee-monitoring software, sometimes called bossware, to monitor worker productivity.
At Tesla’s New York plant, workers told Bloomberg that the company tracks how active they are on their computers — and that they’ve avoided taking bathroom breaks as a result.
Refusing to turn on your webcam during a meeting, for instance, could give your employer the right to fire you if you live in the US, legal experts previously told Insider.
“Everybody in the industry talks about it — you’ve got the all-seeing eye of Big Brother watching everything the employees are doing, and it’s a little creepy,” a Time Doctor staffer told Insider in 2021.
The original article contains 678 words, the summary contains 191 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Pretty sure if my work place tries to do this people will just quit… Employers are already facing retention issue.
I quit a job after three days because they wanted me to install that shit on my machine. It was not mentioned in the interview and I specifically asked how they measured hours worked. They just said “we have a timesheet software where you input your times”. It was also an emergency hire for a job someone quit two weeks before deadline. /s Great place to work!! /s
Thats why so many employers say they can’t hire the right person. You did the right thing. I will also quit in that situation. If an employer don’t trust me, what is the point working there?
How can I check if my laptop has such software installed?
If it’s a work laptop, treat it like it has tracking software on it. Don’t use your work computer for personal stuff that you don’t want your employer to see. Period.
Well, thx. But this was not my question.
Disclaimer, I have not studied the software in question and there are many ways to implement it, so this isn’t a way to say a computer is clean, just a way to detect if it’s infected.
Typically, keylogging programs like these are installed as device driver filters. Open devmgmt.msc, locate your keyboard and right click -> properties -> details tab -> property drop down -> upper filters and lower filters.
These should be empty normally. If there are entries present then you have some program that is hooking into your keyboard driver and accessing your keystrokes.
Similarly, there should be a filter on your mouse if it is being listened to.
If you are especially paranoid, you can jot down the GUID of the keyboard and mouse driver (it looks like a long hex number with dashes surrounded by {}s), then shut down the computer and boot to a rescue disk, open up regedit, mount the registry hive for SYSTEM it’s located in \windows\system32\config\system, (let’s say you mount it to SYSTEM.remote), then navigate to SYSTEM.remote\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\
Then you scroll through this key’s values and look for UpperFilters and LowerFilters.
The reason why you do it this way is to avoid a rootkit situation, where a driver also hooks into requests to the OS for certain information, and uses that to hide its presence.
