Radical idea, how about you don’t try and pull this on someone who has stated that they are in the cohort of people who has experienced this type of violence repeatedly with examples?
It is incredibly invalidating to have someone try and use percentages to tell you what you should and shouldn’t be afraid of when you have already had legitimate cause to fear for your safety in the past. This person is not the audience for that and you are only going to make them more afraid because you have demonstrated that you place objective percentages based on wider population demographics over their personal lived experience… Which is a jerk thing to do because what it ACTUALLY does is make a previously victimized person relive experiences of other invalidations they experienced following the traumatic events and deepens their overall distrust of people to care and take what happened to them seriously.
You are trying to score points to prove you’re right at the expense of someone’s overall well being when you do this. Even if you are right it’s a shitty thing to do to a person.
Rare bad things have happened to me, too. But recognizing that they are indeed rare is important, arguably even more so because I have faced it.
Fearing that something bad that’s happened to you will happen again, is natural and understandable, it’s how the human brain works.
Doesn’t make it not irrational, though. Don’t take as a personal insult the stating of that fact. It’s also not “invalidation” to state that fact, as the fact is literally not a direct comment on anything you actually experienced in your actual individual life.
This is coming from someone who was molested by an older girl as a child. Should I fear and suspect all older women? Racists also use this logic to try and justify being ‘wary’ of all members of a race after having some bad experience with one or a few individuals of that race.
The irony of all this is that you’re interpreting my words as a personal attack on you, when it’s literally healthier to get yourself out of the mindset that ‘bad men are everywhere and the next trauma is around every corner waiting to strike’. That’s no way to live.
I want to see people not swallowed whole by their traumas.
Rare bad things have happened to me, too. But recognizing that they are indeed rare is important, arguably even more so because I have faced it.
Survivorship bias. Women take far more considerations than men do. You believe I think twice about going out at night to the store? My wife was accosted twice in a month doing that, so she never did it again. And look, accosting is down! Why worry, it’s on the decline!
Bad thing happened to my wife 2 times and me 0 times so you’re wrong because my reality is everyone’s reality
Imagine a guy saying “Domestic violence doesn’t exist; I’ve never seen a man hit his girlfriend/wife”, and how stupid you’d think he was for saying that.
I am not the person you originally spoke to and I do not feel myself personally attacked. I am also not someone who has experienced this particular trauma but I have experienced some fairly nasty trauma in other fields none-the-less.
Your method of healing your personal trauma does not mend theirs and you are not presenting it in an empathetic way. You are trying to shame them and humiliate them for seeming silly for their experiences by trying to treat them as hysterical. There are ways to de-escalate a fear reaponse in people but that isn’t what you’re doing. You are not listening when someone routinely is telling you they aren’t ready and trying to force your framework on them to make yourself feel justified. Recognize your audience. If someone is going to de-escalate their fear response it is going to be a conscious process over time, not from a random stranger on the internet swaggering up and saying “I have numbers”. Who knows where the person you are talking to might be coming from? They may be in a community that is suffering a disproportional problem where that fear might actually be logical.
Rather than YOU feeling attacked about where she’s coming and trying to strike back maybe realize - if you’ve managed to deal with your traumas you have the advantage of an emotional distance they do not. Use that distance to display empathy to that situation or back off because you are not going to make anything better otherwise. Do you want to be right or do you want to do good because sometimes you have to choose.
Ever heard the saying “it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility”?
When someone’s irrational/exaggerated fear becomes manifested as sexism, that manifestation absolutely deserves to get shut down, emphatically. If they don’t like that, it’s too damn bad, you are responsible for the statements you make, regardless of what traumas you’ve suffered.
I empathize with the trauma, not with the sexism. There is a difference, and no trauma excuses bigotry.
I stand by all I’ve said. No one would excuse a white person using the same logic to imply they’re justified in constantly fearing violence from black people, no matter how many black people may have done something bad to them in their past.
Half the problem with a lot of these discussions is that they devolve into the “I’ve been wronged” kyriarchy Olympics where people are not content to simply be wronged but they must be the most wronged and everyone else must be smacked for even implying that they are also wronged . She was doing it AND you are doing it too. She’s just reflecting your energy back at you Neither of you are going to get far until you can shelve your individually held needs long enough to recognize the other’s. Yes you were hurt, so were they but they are never going to offer YOU empathy if you can’t demonstrate you understand their fear is real to them.
Remember that women’s indoctrination for all the things they need to watch for to keep themselves safe starts early and there are very rare places in the world where they actually venture out after dark alone without fear. They are taught from childhood that there be monsters, that they are helpless, that they have to be suspicious and wary. You don’t treat fear that has been cultivated since childhood by the people training you to be an adult by dismissal. You don’t treat any fear by dismissal.
You want to talk about owning your shit? This isn’t a race to claim the most victimhood - that is toxic as shit. You want to change things for the better make people feel heard and ask what tools they need to feel safe. Make everyone feel safer and more supported rather than like they can’t trust you to care about anything but your own shit because yeah their fear is your problem. But if you can’t properly engage with it it is never going to go away.
The only reason I mentioned anything about what happened to me, was to make an example of the fact that if I had made a shitty sexist statement about women and tried to use that trauma to justify it, I would be, rightly, lambasted for it. I did not say a single thing to even begin to imply any sort of comparison of severity between us. Shame on you for that ridiculous accusation. The irony is that the entire second paragraph of your comment is, literally, actual ‘oppression olympics’ behavior–you mention all of that with no point other than ‘we have it bad so shut up’.
Trauma does not justify sexism. Period. And the sexism is what I called out. Just like a white guy getting mugged by a black guy doesn’t get to get away with implying he’s justified in fearing all black people. I wonder if you’d jump to such a guy’s defense, wagging your finger at anyone who calls out his racist statement, telling them they’re ‘dismissing his fear’. How ludicrous.
You are very tiring. Honestly it’s very difficult to empathize with someone who keeps trying so god damn hard to borrow other forms of oppression to validate their own.
I am sympathetic to men and women in regards to the issues that plague both but for fuck sake. If you don’t understand the mechanics of how to foster empathy you are just going to become bitter and angry. Yes, Talk about the things that make you feel oppressed but don’t try and do so as with the intention to shut someone else down as a counter to someone else venting their issues. Create your own moment where you talk about how this stuff in isolation of other people’s shit . That’s how you make your issues known while not seeming like a raging narcissistic ass.
Your problem is only tangentially sexism related. In reality it’s is not understanding basic social dynamics.
someone who keeps trying so god damn hard to borrow other forms of oppression to validate their own.
Literally just making things up at this point. You’ve created a very interesting alternate reality in your head about what’s gone on in this comment chain. Enjoy it, I’ll leave you to it. I’m sure that fleeting sensation of self-righteousness will fill the void for a little longer this time.
I will always call out and criticize a person of any immutable-characteristic-demographic saying their bad experience with a person or people of some other immutable-characteristic-demographic justifies fearing all of them. I will always do that because it is always the right thing to do.
That’s the beginning and the end of it, no matter how many nonsensical accusations you try to stick to me for doing so. “Men fear being rejected, women fear being killed” is a deeply sexist statement, period. You will not dissuade me from calling it out for what it is, especially not with your ‘spaghetti at the wall’ attempt to stick some sort of accusation or ulterior motive onto me.
Sure. Whatever floats your boat. Have fun talking with unyielding walls that offer you neither refuge nor comfort because you are too stubborn to look for doors.
Radical idea, how about you don’t try and pull this on someone who has stated that they are in the cohort of people who has experienced this type of violence repeatedly with examples?
It is incredibly invalidating to have someone try and use percentages to tell you what you should and shouldn’t be afraid of when you have already had legitimate cause to fear for your safety in the past. This person is not the audience for that and you are only going to make them more afraid because you have demonstrated that you place objective percentages based on wider population demographics over their personal lived experience… Which is a jerk thing to do because what it ACTUALLY does is make a previously victimized person relive experiences of other invalidations they experienced following the traumatic events and deepens their overall distrust of people to care and take what happened to them seriously.
You are trying to score points to prove you’re right at the expense of someone’s overall well being when you do this. Even if you are right it’s a shitty thing to do to a person.
Rare bad things have happened to me, too. But recognizing that they are indeed rare is important, arguably even more so because I have faced it.
Fearing that something bad that’s happened to you will happen again, is natural and understandable, it’s how the human brain works.
Doesn’t make it not irrational, though. Don’t take as a personal insult the stating of that fact. It’s also not “invalidation” to state that fact, as the fact is literally not a direct comment on anything you actually experienced in your actual individual life.
This is coming from someone who was molested by an older girl as a child. Should I fear and suspect all older women? Racists also use this logic to try and justify being ‘wary’ of all members of a race after having some bad experience with one or a few individuals of that race.
The irony of all this is that you’re interpreting my words as a personal attack on you, when it’s literally healthier to get yourself out of the mindset that ‘bad men are everywhere and the next trauma is around every corner waiting to strike’. That’s no way to live.
I want to see people not swallowed whole by their traumas.
Survivorship bias. Women take far more considerations than men do. You believe I think twice about going out at night to the store? My wife was accosted twice in a month doing that, so she never did it again. And look, accosting is down! Why worry, it’s on the decline!
Imagine a guy saying “Domestic violence doesn’t exist; I’ve never seen a man hit his girlfriend/wife”, and how stupid you’d think he was for saying that.
Now you know how you’re being perceived.
I am not the person you originally spoke to and I do not feel myself personally attacked. I am also not someone who has experienced this particular trauma but I have experienced some fairly nasty trauma in other fields none-the-less.
Your method of healing your personal trauma does not mend theirs and you are not presenting it in an empathetic way. You are trying to shame them and humiliate them for seeming silly for their experiences by trying to treat them as hysterical. There are ways to de-escalate a fear reaponse in people but that isn’t what you’re doing. You are not listening when someone routinely is telling you they aren’t ready and trying to force your framework on them to make yourself feel justified. Recognize your audience. If someone is going to de-escalate their fear response it is going to be a conscious process over time, not from a random stranger on the internet swaggering up and saying “I have numbers”. Who knows where the person you are talking to might be coming from? They may be in a community that is suffering a disproportional problem where that fear might actually be logical.
Rather than YOU feeling attacked about where she’s coming and trying to strike back maybe realize - if you’ve managed to deal with your traumas you have the advantage of an emotional distance they do not. Use that distance to display empathy to that situation or back off because you are not going to make anything better otherwise. Do you want to be right or do you want to do good because sometimes you have to choose.
Ever heard the saying “it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility”?
When someone’s irrational/exaggerated fear becomes manifested as sexism, that manifestation absolutely deserves to get shut down, emphatically. If they don’t like that, it’s too damn bad, you are responsible for the statements you make, regardless of what traumas you’ve suffered.
I empathize with the trauma, not with the sexism. There is a difference, and no trauma excuses bigotry.
I stand by all I’ve said. No one would excuse a white person using the same logic to imply they’re justified in constantly fearing violence from black people, no matter how many black people may have done something bad to them in their past.
This is no different.
Half the problem with a lot of these discussions is that they devolve into the “I’ve been wronged” kyriarchy Olympics where people are not content to simply be wronged but they must be the most wronged and everyone else must be smacked for even implying that they are also wronged . She was doing it AND you are doing it too. She’s just reflecting your energy back at you Neither of you are going to get far until you can shelve your individually held needs long enough to recognize the other’s. Yes you were hurt, so were they but they are never going to offer YOU empathy if you can’t demonstrate you understand their fear is real to them.
Remember that women’s indoctrination for all the things they need to watch for to keep themselves safe starts early and there are very rare places in the world where they actually venture out after dark alone without fear. They are taught from childhood that there be monsters, that they are helpless, that they have to be suspicious and wary. You don’t treat fear that has been cultivated since childhood by the people training you to be an adult by dismissal. You don’t treat any fear by dismissal.
You want to talk about owning your shit? This isn’t a race to claim the most victimhood - that is toxic as shit. You want to change things for the better make people feel heard and ask what tools they need to feel safe. Make everyone feel safer and more supported rather than like they can’t trust you to care about anything but your own shit because yeah their fear is your problem. But if you can’t properly engage with it it is never going to go away.
The only reason I mentioned anything about what happened to me, was to make an example of the fact that if I had made a shitty sexist statement about women and tried to use that trauma to justify it, I would be, rightly, lambasted for it. I did not say a single thing to even begin to imply any sort of comparison of severity between us. Shame on you for that ridiculous accusation. The irony is that the entire second paragraph of your comment is, literally, actual ‘oppression olympics’ behavior–you mention all of that with no point other than ‘we have it bad so shut up’.
Trauma does not justify sexism. Period. And the sexism is what I called out. Just like a white guy getting mugged by a black guy doesn’t get to get away with implying he’s justified in fearing all black people. I wonder if you’d jump to such a guy’s defense, wagging your finger at anyone who calls out his racist statement, telling them they’re ‘dismissing his fear’. How ludicrous.
You are very tiring. Honestly it’s very difficult to empathize with someone who keeps trying so god damn hard to borrow other forms of oppression to validate their own.
I am sympathetic to men and women in regards to the issues that plague both but for fuck sake. If you don’t understand the mechanics of how to foster empathy you are just going to become bitter and angry. Yes, Talk about the things that make you feel oppressed but don’t try and do so as with the intention to shut someone else down as a counter to someone else venting their issues. Create your own moment where you talk about how this stuff in isolation of other people’s shit . That’s how you make your issues known while not seeming like a raging narcissistic ass.
Your problem is only tangentially sexism related. In reality it’s is not understanding basic social dynamics.
Literally just making things up at this point. You’ve created a very interesting alternate reality in your head about what’s gone on in this comment chain. Enjoy it, I’ll leave you to it. I’m sure that fleeting sensation of self-righteousness will fill the void for a little longer this time.
I will always call out and criticize a person of any immutable-characteristic-demographic saying their bad experience with a person or people of some other immutable-characteristic-demographic justifies fearing all of them. I will always do that because it is always the right thing to do.
That’s the beginning and the end of it, no matter how many nonsensical accusations you try to stick to me for doing so. “Men fear being rejected, women fear being killed” is a deeply sexist statement, period. You will not dissuade me from calling it out for what it is, especially not with your ‘spaghetti at the wall’ attempt to stick some sort of accusation or ulterior motive onto me.
I see right through you.
Sure. Whatever floats your boat. Have fun talking with unyielding walls that offer you neither refuge nor comfort because you are too stubborn to look for doors.