Afghan schoolgirls are weeping as they finish sixth grade, knowing their education is over. Under Taliban rule, they are unlikely to ever step foot in a classroom again.
I don’t wish to disparage people’s spiritual beliefs, but I’m sorry nobody should have to go around wearing anything like this, no matter what faith you come from. You should have the freedom to EXIST as yourself and show who you are. This niqab stuff is abuse.
Was just about to say. Fuck organized religion, fuck tolerating bigotry and intolerance in the name of acceptance and pluralism. Religion is something to be overcome not assimilated.
We have machines going beyond solar system, scientific evidence that earth revolves around Sun , ability to interact with people on the other side of globe instantly and more…
None of these things have religion ever predicted. And sometimes even being grossly wrong.
So you’re telling me that killing hundreds of thousands of people maybe even millions over the years in the name of some character which no one has any physical evidence exists and the people that follow along subconsciously know it’s fake however they are too afraid of not having some fictional guiding light is bad??? You’re wrong, Jesus saves!!!¡¡!¡!!! /s
As someone with Muslim family, they will tell you that it is the women’s choice. That they prefer to cover themselves from head to toe, even in blistering heat. The actual choice is to bite their tongue and wear it, or choose to deal with shame, humiliation, mockery, and often times much worse.
The rest of history has shown that women don’t choose that kind of clothing when they have free will.
That they prefer to cover themselves from head to toe, even in blistering heat.
Please don’t be ignorant
“The authors also concluded that the typical Bedouin costume has the same effects whether it is black or white. The black color does absorb more heat, but it does not reach the skin, so the color of the fabric is not important. The thickness of the fabric of these garments also favors better absorption of temperature, preventing it from reaching the skin.”
While true that covering clothing can protect from the sun, it doesn’t do anything indoors. Yet women still wear them indoors. Also, if that’s the reason they are worn, why don’t men cover themselves similarly?
Don’t be ignorant of the fact that women are raped or killed for not wearing them in some places. Look up Mahsa Amini if you don’t believe me.
Don’t be ignorant of the fact that women are raped or killed for not wearing them in some places.
Name the places. No one is getting raped or killed for not wearing them here in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
Look up Mahsa Amini if you don’t believe me.
I read the laws in Iran, and the fine for not wearing hijab ranges between 5000 - 500,000 Iranian riyal, or 0.10 - 10.14 USD, and 10 days - 2 months imprisonment. Everything I can gather outside of western sources is that it was an accident. And accidents with the police happen in the west too, the US is specially notorious for it.
“O Prophet! Ask your wives, daughters, and believing women to draw their cloaks over their bodies. In this way it is more likely that they will be recognized ˹as virtuous˺ and not be abused. And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
— Surah Al-Ahzab 33:59
It’s right there in your own book. People have an excuse to sexually harass and “abuse” women for not dressing modestly if you interpret it lightly, and worse if you interpret it harshly. Why should women be more likely to be abused for not dressing modestly? That’s terrible.
Sexual harrassment happens regularly. In India, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iran to name just a few places that I have seen it happen with my own eyes. Rapes and killings are less common, but there are plenty of instances throughout history.
In modern times there are countless stories of fathers killing their daughters for not wearing a hijab. Honor killings are in the news pretty often even in the US
Yes, but most Muslim countries don’t enforce Shariah law. No seriously, this is from Saudi Arabia, a Saudi actress in a Saudi film festival:
Also, FYI I’m not a Muslim.
In India, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iran to name just a few places that I have seen it happen with my own eyes. Rapes and killings are less common, but there are plenty of instances throughout history.
Cite sources, bring up numbers, and then prove they are more because of Islam. So far, you are just posting noise. In Saudi Arabia it is safe to go out at night alone as a woman. This is not true for many rich and developed western countries.
I’ll just agree to disagree with you as an ex-Muslim who has traveled the world and has seen the differences. I don’t have time to do research for you. Also, I don’t think that just Islam is the problem. It’s all abrahamic religions. They are all terrible. Islam just seems to have the largest pockets of areas dedicated to denying women’s rights at our current point in history. Even my less conservative Muslim family members have a terribly antiquated view on them.
Your personal experiences are yours alone. Don’t project them onto others, and don’t assume all 2 billion Muslims will have the same experiences as you.
Are you Arab by any chance? It may be your culture and not Islam.
People’s spiritual belief should be limited to themselves, the moment you enforce your religious rules on anyone else it’s no longer OK and should be disparaged. Everyone should have the freedom to dress as a beekeeper, no one should have the obligation to do so.
We don’t really want your values or morals. I don’t care about hijab, but the West has nothing of value to offer Muslim women.
Even as a Saudi I feel it is not my place to police Afghans. Their country, their business. At least they aren’t sending bastard soldiers to invade other countries.
Yeah, the US has moved backwards pretty quickly regarding women’s reproductive rights.
Do women in Saudi Arabia need male permission to have an abortion though? Because that’d be a strike against them. As well, I don’t imagine sex outside of marriage is allowed…
Do women in Saudi Arabia need male permission to have an abortion though?
Yes
Because that’d be a strike against them.
Not really, because there’s no reason for a married couple to want an abortion, birth control is legal and a woman can choose not to get pregnant. Children are guaranteed welfare, including healthcare, in Saudi Arabia.
I don’t imagine sex outside of marriage is allowed…
Children born out of wedlock with no guarantee to housing or healthcare or financial aid, not even a free amublance for their birthing mother, is more dystopian to me
You have your culture, they have theirs. You should be more concerned with US and NATO war crimes, rather than policing the culture of people who just want to be left alone.
The West is welcome [not really] to try spending 2.4 trillion dollars and 20 years in Afghanistan again. Maybe one more bomb is all it takes to make them westernize… ;)
To me it is absurd that western countries don’t care for their own people but pretend to care about people half way across the world. It is all a scam to sell wars to the people and you fell for it. If you want Afghanistan to develop and progress leave it alone. You tried establishing a puppet state and it collapsed immediately, count your losses and move on.
If you want Afghanistan to develop and progress leave it alone.
I’m sorry but I just find it hard to not care about the despicable treatment of women there. It’s messed up. Me not caring about the women there is not going to benefit them.
You tried establishing a puppet state and it collapsed immediately, count your losses and move on.
The degrading conditions and quality of life in most western countries suggest that the people don’t care.
I’m sorry but I just find it hard to not care about the despicable treatment of women there. It’s messed up. Me not caring about the women there is not going to benefit them.
If your care is sincere there are ways to help other than building up a narrative for sanctions or invasions. There was a point in time when Saudi Arabia was rural and conservative, with time it has developed, and now females outperform males in academic achievement. For another example, look at nearby Iran which has an urban and educated population.
Do you know anything about material and socioeconomic conditions? Afghanistan haven’t had a moment of political stability, and was never given a chance.
I tried?
Western states are democracies aren’t they? Their actions reflect the will of the people. Though you may be from the countries that didn’t join the US-led invasion.
The only reason it got downvoted was because it was a 5G speed demo in Saudi Arabia. But I hold Lemmy is still better than Reddit. In Reddit you couldn’t post anything about any Arab or Muslim country without the comment section being toxic.
Did you consider the fact that it’s useless content that probably breaks Rule #2 on that community?
Regarding your other hobbies, those posts don’t federate to my instance, so I’m sorry I didn’t see you have an interest in music and religion. If I may correct my initial statement from “Your entire” to “90% of”.
And you don’t have HSR or free healthcare. I finished university like most Saudis with money saved. In Saudi Arabia the university pays you, I’d rather have this than a false choice between 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler. Go beg your government for student loan forgiveness.
I don’t wish to disparage people’s spiritual beliefs, but I’m sorry nobody should have to go around wearing anything like this, no matter what faith you come from. You should have the freedom to EXIST as yourself and show who you are. This niqab stuff is abuse.
I do wish to disparage people’s spiritual beliefs, so I’ll just say that religion is the greatest evil ever created by humankind.
Was just about to say. Fuck organized religion, fuck tolerating bigotry and intolerance in the name of acceptance and pluralism. Religion is something to be overcome not assimilated.
IMO religion shouldn’t exist in 21st Century.
We have machines going beyond solar system, scientific evidence that earth revolves around Sun , ability to interact with people on the other side of globe instantly and more…
None of these things have religion ever predicted. And sometimes even being grossly wrong.
So you’re telling me that killing hundreds of thousands of people maybe even millions over the years in the name of some character which no one has any physical evidence exists and the people that follow along subconsciously know it’s fake however they are too afraid of not having some fictional guiding light is bad??? You’re wrong, Jesus saves!!!¡¡!¡!!! /s
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Modern society could not have formed without religion. So yeah, it’s hell.
What matters is that they can’t get education and economic independence, who gives a shit about dress codes
To me forcing the girls to cover their faces is another shit thing done to them.
Yes, but it is a very minor shit thing. It is literally just aesthetic and all cultures have dress norms.
Forcing women to cover themselves up from head to toe is a bit more than just a “dress norm”. Should be able to choose.
How is it different?
As someone with Muslim family, they will tell you that it is the women’s choice. That they prefer to cover themselves from head to toe, even in blistering heat. The actual choice is to bite their tongue and wear it, or choose to deal with shame, humiliation, mockery, and often times much worse.
The rest of history has shown that women don’t choose that kind of clothing when they have free will.
Precisely. Nobody should be forced to wear clothing in any faith that they don’t want to.
Please don’t be ignorant
“The authors also concluded that the typical Bedouin costume has the same effects whether it is black or white. The black color does absorb more heat, but it does not reach the skin, so the color of the fabric is not important. The thickness of the fabric of these garments also favors better absorption of temperature, preventing it from reaching the skin.”
The Bedouin lesson: A scientific study proves robes are the best garment to wear in the desert heat
While true that covering clothing can protect from the sun, it doesn’t do anything indoors. Yet women still wear them indoors. Also, if that’s the reason they are worn, why don’t men cover themselves similarly?
Don’t be ignorant of the fact that women are raped or killed for not wearing them in some places. Look up Mahsa Amini if you don’t believe me.
Name the places. No one is getting raped or killed for not wearing them here in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
I read the laws in Iran, and the fine for not wearing hijab ranges between 5000 - 500,000 Iranian riyal, or 0.10 - 10.14 USD, and 10 days - 2 months imprisonment. Everything I can gather outside of western sources is that it was an accident. And accidents with the police happen in the west too, the US is specially notorious for it.
Again, not all Muslim countries are Iran.
“O Prophet! Ask your wives, daughters, and believing women to draw their cloaks over their bodies. In this way it is more likely that they will be recognized ˹as virtuous˺ and not be abused. And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
— Surah Al-Ahzab 33:59
It’s right there in your own book. People have an excuse to sexually harass and “abuse” women for not dressing modestly if you interpret it lightly, and worse if you interpret it harshly. Why should women be more likely to be abused for not dressing modestly? That’s terrible.
Sexual harrassment happens regularly. In India, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iran to name just a few places that I have seen it happen with my own eyes. Rapes and killings are less common, but there are plenty of instances throughout history.
In modern times there are countless stories of fathers killing their daughters for not wearing a hijab. Honor killings are in the news pretty often even in the US
Yes, but most Muslim countries don’t enforce Shariah law. No seriously, this is from Saudi Arabia, a Saudi actress in a Saudi film festival:
Also, FYI I’m not a Muslim.
Cite sources, bring up numbers, and then prove they are more because of Islam. So far, you are just posting noise. In Saudi Arabia it is safe to go out at night alone as a woman. This is not true for many rich and developed western countries.
I’ll just agree to disagree with you as an ex-Muslim who has traveled the world and has seen the differences. I don’t have time to do research for you. Also, I don’t think that just Islam is the problem. It’s all abrahamic religions. They are all terrible. Islam just seems to have the largest pockets of areas dedicated to denying women’s rights at our current point in history. Even my less conservative Muslim family members have a terribly antiquated view on them.
Your personal experiences are yours alone. Don’t project them onto others, and don’t assume all 2 billion Muslims will have the same experiences as you.
Are you Arab by any chance? It may be your culture and not Islam.
People’s spiritual belief should be limited to themselves, the moment you enforce your religious rules on anyone else it’s no longer OK and should be disparaged. Everyone should have the freedom to dress as a beekeeper, no one should have the obligation to do so.
We need to pat ourselves on our back that we got out of there.
Were you raised Muslim? I’m an ex Catholic lol.
No religion.
We don’t really want your values or morals. I don’t care about hijab, but the West has nothing of value to offer Muslim women.
Even as a Saudi I feel it is not my place to police Afghans. Their country, their business. At least they aren’t sending bastard soldiers to invade other countries.
Muslim women do tend to thrive outside of Muslim countries, so I’d say the West has quite a bit to offer them.
You are welcome to lose again.
I’ll share a few about Saudi Arabia:
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/saudi-arabia/2023/08/10/Saudi-women-making-great-strides-in-education-employment-health-GASTAT
https://www.newarab.com/news/greater-abortion-access-saudi-arabia-us-states
Yeah, the US has moved backwards pretty quickly regarding women’s reproductive rights.
Do women in Saudi Arabia need male permission to have an abortion though? Because that’d be a strike against them. As well, I don’t imagine sex outside of marriage is allowed…
Yes
Not really, because there’s no reason for a married couple to want an abortion, birth control is legal and a woman can choose not to get pregnant. Children are guaranteed welfare, including healthcare, in Saudi Arabia.
No it isn’t.
I guess it’s more male access to a woman’s abortion…I don’t think that counts. That’s worse than the US.
Birth control can fail, so it’s not necessarily a “choice” to get pregnant or not.
And no sex outside marriage just sounds dystopian…
Children born out of wedlock with no guarantee to housing or healthcare or financial aid, not even a free amublance for their birthing mother, is more dystopian to me
Yeah, that’s pretty dystopian too.
I guess we can agree that both the US and Saudi Arabia have dystopian aspects and treat women poorly? Also the US treats children poorly?
You have your culture, they have theirs. You should be more concerned with US and NATO war crimes, rather than policing the culture of people who just want to be left alone.
The West is welcome [not really] to try spending 2.4 trillion dollars and 20 years in Afghanistan again. Maybe one more bomb is all it takes to make them westernize… ;)
“Don’t concern yourself with (issue), concern yourself with (another issue).”
Afghanistan could have been further developed by now if the US didn’t occupy it for 20 years.
Progress is happening regardless. Afghanistan now for example has local photovoltaic solar panel production.
I’m not going to stop caring about women because Afghanistan has solar panels. To me that’s absurd.
To me it is absurd that western countries don’t care for their own people but pretend to care about people half way across the world. It is all a scam to sell wars to the people and you fell for it. If you want Afghanistan to develop and progress leave it alone. You tried establishing a puppet state and it collapsed immediately, count your losses and move on.
Why do you assume I don’t care for my own people?
I’m sorry but I just find it hard to not care about the despicable treatment of women there. It’s messed up. Me not caring about the women there is not going to benefit them.
I tried?
The degrading conditions and quality of life in most western countries suggest that the people don’t care.
If your care is sincere there are ways to help other than building up a narrative for sanctions or invasions. There was a point in time when Saudi Arabia was rural and conservative, with time it has developed, and now females outperform males in academic achievement. For another example, look at nearby Iran which has an urban and educated population.
Do you know anything about material and socioeconomic conditions? Afghanistan haven’t had a moment of political stability, and was never given a chance.
Western states are democracies aren’t they? Their actions reflect the will of the people. Though you may be from the countries that didn’t join the US-led invasion.
Your entire post and comment history is political. You should get a hobby.
Maybe their hobby is politics.
!arabicmusic@lemmy.ml is political?
!arabianpaganism@lemmy.ml is political?
They mean not white when they say political
I’m not sure I follow your logic?
Just look at how controversial this post was https://lemmy.ml/post/9629138
The only reason it got downvoted was because it was a 5G speed demo in Saudi Arabia. But I hold Lemmy is still better than Reddit. In Reddit you couldn’t post anything about any Arab or Muslim country without the comment section being toxic.
Did you consider the fact that it’s useless content that probably breaks Rule #2 on that community?
Regarding your other hobbies, those posts don’t federate to my instance, so I’m sorry I didn’t see you have an interest in music and religion. If I may correct my initial statement from “Your entire” to “90% of”.
I didn’t choose for Palestine to be colonized. I didn’t choose for there to be US troops and bases in my country.
I would rather talk about Kenafah and Debke. But here we are. In between being colonized and bombed.
Dooogg whiisstlleeesss!!
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I didn’t realize all 2 billion of them lived in Afghanistan
You are such a judgmental and bigoted fellow. Enjoy your enlightened democracy.
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And you don’t have HSR or free healthcare. I finished university like most Saudis with money saved. In Saudi Arabia the university pays you, I’d rather have this than a false choice between 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler. Go beg your government for student loan forgiveness.
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