• CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    2 months ago

    Intent does not erase impact. Disability explains occurrence, not institutional failure

    Tourettes sucks, doesn’t change the fact slurs caused harm

        • BanMeFromPosting [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          2 months ago

          No they aren’t. You and others are being ableist because

          • You refuse to engage with what a Tourettes diagnosis entails
          • You continue to behave as if this was somehow a conscious choice, even when informed otherwise
          • You and others want him to either stay out of public vision or stop having Tourettes
          • You argue that Tourettes is not something that impacts the one with the diagnosis. Like you are Cartman.
          • You act as though his tics somehow reveal something about his morality

          I haven’t seen anyone say anything akin to “actually it was really cool and awesome he said that slur and you’re ableist if you think otherwise”.

          Edit: and I can see from the other thread that you know all this already as it has been explained to you several times. So I don’t know why you keep arguing against a position you know noone holds, nor why you keep ignoring the actual arguments set forth for you.

          • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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            2 months ago

            Spare me the bullshit gaslighting

            You refuse to engage with what a Tourettes diagnosis entails

            A bad faith user pretended I believed Tourette’s makes people develop racist beliefs. I never said this, I never believed it, and now multiple users have spread this lie, I explained multiple times a medical condition can induce unintentional racist ACTIONS, not internal racist beliefs, ACTIONS, I clarified that distinction multiple times hence my point of intent does not erase impact

            You continue to behave as if this was somehow a conscious choice, even when informed otherwise

            I have clarified multiple times intent does not negate impact, that implies I do NOT believe it was a conscious choice, again you’re spreading lies

            You and others want him to either stay out of public vision or stop having Tourettes

            In the very specific context of inflicting racial abuse on other people because of a neurological condition, then avoidance OR ANY OTHER harm reduction strategies become viable, because the harm is no longer individualized as racial abuse is a very specific thing, REGARDLESS OF INTENT

            This does not apply to most sufferers of Tourette’s because racism (which does not require intent to be inflicted) is not synonymous with the typical inconvenience, annoyance, or uncomfortableness typical Tourette’s sufferers deal with on an individual level and I NEVER CLAIMED “he should stop having Tourettes” what a blatant lie

            You argue that Tourettes is not something that impacts the one with the diagnosis

            I said the impact of slurs is not something he has to deal with, his disability is the explanation for why it happened and he has to deal with his condition, that does not mean the n-word impacts him in any way similar to the way it impacted the cast of Sinners, again you’re a liar and a weasel trying to twist my words, disengage and kick rocks

            • BanMeFromPosting [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              2 months ago

              Gaslighting

              Gaslighting is when you point out what a person is doing, when that person does not like being confronted with what it is they are doing.

              A bad faith user pretended I believed Tourette’s makes people develop racist beliefs. I never said this, I never believed it, and now multiple users have spread this lie,

              A user pointed out the logical conclusion of the arguments you put forth. It was, and is, clear you attach a moral value to the tics.

              I explained multiple times a medical condition can induce unintentional racist ACTIONS, not internal racist beliefs, ACTIONS, I clarified that distinction multiple times hence my point of intent does not erase impact

              Come on, none of us are liberals here. We understand that just because you say one thing it does not stop you from doing another.
              Here’s what I think has happened: You consider yourself a leftist. A leftist isn’t ableist, so obviously you aren’t. When it was pointed out to you how what you were doing was ableist, you got super heated and didn’t actually engage with the argument, because it was so obviously wrong, since you’re a leftist. No reason to interrogate your own beliefs or arguments. And now you’re locked up, getting more and more mad, because you keep getting confronted with your ableist arguments.

              I have clarified multiple times intent does not negate impact, that implies I do NOT believe it was a conscious choice, again you’re spreading lies

              And you have multiple times put forth arguments that only function if it is a conscious choice. I’m not spreading lies, I’m just saying stuff you don’t enjoy hearing.

              In the very specific context of inflicting racial abuse on other people because of a neurological condition, then avoidance OR ANY OTHER harm reduction strategies become viable, because the harm is no longer individualized as racial abuse is a very specific thing, REGARDLESS OF INTENT

              In other words: He should stay out of public view. This is not harm reduction, it is ableist.

              This does not apply to most sufferers of Tourette’s because racism (which does not require intent to be inflicted) is not synonymous with the typical inconvenience, annoyance, or uncomfortableness typical Tourette’s sufferers deal with on an individual level

              And here we have you attaching a moral value as well as implying some level of conscious choice on his part. He’s separate from most sufferers, somehow. He’s not typical. It’s clear you don’t actually understand what tourettes is or does, despite it being explained a bunch of times already.

              I NEVER CLAIMED “he should stop having Tourettes” what a blatant lie

              It’s either that or stay out of public view, as I said. That’s what people have pointed out to you a bunch of times before, yet you keep not engaging with it.

              I said the impact of slurs is not something he has to deal with, his disability is the explanation for why it happened and he has to deal with his condition, that does not mean the n-word impacts him in any way similar to the way it impacted the cast of Sinners, again you’re a liar and a weasel trying to twist my words, disengage and kick rocks

              In a metaphor about tourettes being like a colostomy bag bursting, you argued that it was different because it didn’t hurt him. You did not argue specifically as you claim to do now. Yet somehow I’m the one lying and twisting words.

              Disengage

              The disengage function is not a magical “get the last word” button. Attempting to use it as such is incredibly weasely lol. I think if you go and :logout: and come back in a day or so, you’ll probably be less heated and realise how locked up you were beforehand.
              It will probably be best for both of us if this interaction stops however, so I am going to stop replying. Hopefully this helps with getting you to cool off a bit.

              • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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                2 months ago

                It’s clear you don’t consider anything that happened that night to be actually harmful to Black people, because hey, “it wasn’t intentional,” and apparently that’s all that matters to you, because in your mind intent can negate impact and any action taken to mitigate that impact is ableist since intent trumps the harm

                I’m not wasting my time with people who lie, twist words and deny basic concepts of medical ethics

                • BanMeFromPosting [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                  2 months ago

                  You are very mad about me “twisting your words” and “lying”, but you keep doing the same yourself. Is this because you don’t realise it or because you think it doesn’t count when you do it? Of course I consider it harmful, as I have already said. I thought saying things meant you were immune to all accusations or logical conclusions? I personally think it would be fitting if he apologised. I don’t think he is racist because of a tic, nor do I think it’s racist to react negatively to arguments or behaviour like yours.

                  It’s clear you don’t consider anything that happened that night to be actually harmful to Black people, because hey, “it wasn’t intentional,” and apparently that’s all that matters to you, because in your mind intent can negate impact and any action taken to mitigate that impact is ableist since intent trumps the harm

                  Call me crazy, but I don’t think we should lock up people with tourettes, even when they say hurtful things.

                  medical ethics

                  Is medical ethics when you want to lock up people with tourettes and you attach moral values to their tics?
                  Kinda rich to hear you speak of medicine, when you so far have failed to engage with what tourettes is or does.

                  • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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                    2 months ago

                    I personally think it would be fitting if he apologised

                    I love this. In the end they agree with you but still want to spit essays worth of bullshit at you just to make sure you know who’s boss

                    I don’t think he is racist because of a tic, nor do I think it’s racist to react negatively to arguments or behaviour like yours.

                    Again, there’s the crux of why your cracker brain doesn’t understand a thing I’m saying, he doesn’t need to BE a racist to perform racist ACTIONS, again intent does not negate impact

                    Call me crazy, but I don’t think we should lock up people with tourettes, even when they say hurtful things.

                    Now I want to lock them up and throw away the key!!! As if avoidance of triggers isn’t actually a real treatment plan for sufferers of Tourettes, do I really need to pull up a Tourette’s advocate saying the exact same thing before it penetrates your skull, I mean I better not since the advocate in the link is Black and you may take issue with that. Fuck it, disengage and go yell at him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgaqKIxS4Hs