Personally I think it’s silly as hell. Qualia is obviously a biological component of experience… Not some weird thing that science will never be able to put in to words.

I’ve been listening to a lot of psychology podcasts lately and for some reason people seem obsessed with the idea despite you needing to make the same logical leaps to believe it as any sort of mysticism… Maybe I am just tripping idk

  • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
    3·
    3 months ago

    The P-Zombie you have invented in this thought experiment is question begging.

    📽️

    We cannot have a behaviorally identical Pzombie because humans are driven by consciousness, which P-Zombies are incapable of

    Literally question begging.

    Category error.

    Thought terminating cliche.

    An unconscious human gets hit by a car if they’re in the middle of the road.

    This is so fucking stupid. So if a robot can avoid traffic, it’s conscious then.

    This question only works if you believe in the P-Zombie. Its a non-starter if you don’t.

    Or, you know, if you don’t believe literally all animals, plants, and computers are conscious.

    I am capable of doing so with my incredibly small knowledge of color…

    Name one color you’ve never seen but can perfectly imagine.

    • itsPina [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      11·
      3 months ago

      Name one color you’ve never seen but can perfectly imagine.

      Whatever Mantis Shrimp got going on.

      So if a robot can avoid traffic, it’s conscious then.

      Did it spontaneously avoid traffic through a means of self preservation? If so, maybe. If not, and it was programmed to do so, we have a direct explanation as to why it wasn’t.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
        2·
        3 months ago

        Whatever Mantis Shrimp got going on.

        That’s not remotely the name of a color you’ve never seen but can perfectly imagine. Are you illiterate?

        Did it spontaneously avoid traffic through a means of self preservation?

        As much as a human does. Unless you’re asserting the existence of a non-physical soul that transcends the laws of cause and effect.

        If so, maybe

        What do mean “maybe”? Yes or No?

        . If not, and it was programmed to do so, we have a direct explanation as to why it wasn’t.

        …

        Oh. You literally are proposing that humans have a soul that transcends cause and effect and biological programming.

        • itsPina [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          1·
          3 months ago

          Oh. You literally are proposing that humans have a soul that transcends cause and effect and biological programming.

          Biological programming dictates “dont die, and fuck*”. My maybe is with the asterisk that avoiding that the biological imperative within the p zombie tells the P Zombie (unconsciously?) that ignoring the car leads to fucking.

          That’s not remotely the name of a color you’ve never seen but can perfectly imagine. Are you illiterate?

          You asked me to describe a color. I described a mechanism to achieve said color. Maybe its my CompSci brain but the Function returns the same value. Am I illiterate? I have had 9 alcoholic beverages.

          • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
            1·
            3 months ago

            Biological programming dictates “dont die, and fuck*”.

            Ok. So? Why does that particular programming make it conscious. And once again you’re asserting that all life is conscious.

            You’re also just changing your argument on a whim now. First you said that pzombie wouldn’t avoid traffic, because you need to be conscious to avoid traffic. Now you claim that a robot avoiding traffic isn’t conscious because you don’t need to be conscious to avoid traffic.

            You asked me to describe a color.

            No. I didn’t. For fucks sake, just fucking read other people’s words for once, instead of being so arrogant.

            • itsPina [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
              11·
              3 months ago

              No. I didn’t. For fucks sake, just fucking read other people’s words for once, instead of being so arrogant.

              Name one color you’ve never seen but can perfectly imagine.

              I can’t even perfectly imagine red. “Perfectly imaging” red does a lot of fucking heavy lifting. Again, you’re describing an impossible task DUE TO SEMANTIC ISSUES.

              PERFECT RED ISNT REAL. AHHHHH!!!

              Ok. So? Why does that particular programming make it conscious. And once again you’re asserting that all life is conscious.

              Conscious life clearly has an advantage over unconscious life. If there is no DISTINCTION between conscious and non conscious life WHAT are you asking me to DESCRIBE?

              • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
                2·
                3 months ago

                I can’t even perfectly imagine red. “Perfectly imaging” red does a lot of fucking heavy lifting.

                Oh. So you did actually read it, you were just lying and pretending you didn’t.

                Conscious life clearly has an advantage over unconscious life.

                No it doesn’t, and you’ve presented no argument that it does.

                If there is no DISTINCTION between conscious and non conscious life WHAT are you asking me to DESCRIBE?

                ???. I see you’re back to not reading what I said

                • itsPina [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
                  1·
                  3 months ago

                  Oh. So you did actually read it, you were just lying and pretending you didn’t.

                  Gottem.

                  No it doesn’t, and you’ve presented no argument that it does.

                  Consciousness, as it seems to function, is a means to model your internal and external data into a single experience that will help you dictate further success in getting your fuck on.

                  The P Zombie with my exact make and model right next to me would never consider that me stabbing him in the dumb redditor skull will allow me to get MY fuck on in place of HIM, yet there is evolutionary advantage to me doing so. For him to acknowledge that would be to exhibit what I would define as consciousness.

                  • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
                    2·
                    3 months ago

                    Consciousness, as it seems to function, is a means to model your internal and external data into a single experience that will help you dictate further success in getting your fuck on.

                    So any reproducing system is conscious now. And presumably after going through menopause, women cease to be conscious.

                    The P Zombie with my exact make and model right next to me would never consider that me stabbing him in the dumb redditor skull will allow me to get MY fuck on in place of HIM

                    BEHAVIOURALLY. IDENTICAL. You illiterate child.