This is hard because yes dogs are awesome.
But so are cows, and pigs.
I’m no vegan, but It’s interesting that the revulsion line for so many is dogs rather than fellow land mammals, land creatures, or something more distinct than a mammal you find particularly cute.
I’d argue the moral judgment here largely comes from people who just plain abstain from pointing that same moral judgment to sentient creatures they do eat. A cow or a pig is no less an individual than a dog.
As for me, I am eagerly awaiting lab grown meat becoming more available as an end to our species’ barbarism. Usually all I hear back is disgust at the concept. Give it a chance, for the sake of all the creatures we breed to torture and kill. If we can grow animal protein that tastes the same, that’s a win for everyone.
We bred dogs specifically to love people and to be expressive in an innately human way, so it feels wrong to kill them. Cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. were bred for food. There’s less betrayal if the idea was always to eat them.
Cows are not bred only to supply meat, they supply labor to till fields and provide manure for crops. The dog breeds used for food in those regions are bred specifically for food, no different than current domesticated animals. Its the lack of that understanding and diminishing the work that other domesticated animals do that cause the problem. Hell there are plenty of studies that show pigs are smarter than dogs, we use them for organ transplants and stuff. You can legitamately argue pigs are more innately human than dogs are.
Pigs don’t have expressive faces, built-in emotional understanding of humans, and, most importantly, infinite affection. Horses supplanted cows as farm… workhorses, which severely altered our perception of them in the west. It’s a marketing issue.
Emphasis on the west. In eastern culture, cows are still used (e.g cows in india are considered sacred). Hell, an example of a cow that was originally not bred for consumption is the wagyu, a highly sought after piece of meat. But of course, as westerners, apparently we disregard that fact…
In 1868, Englishman Edward Charles Kirby established the first slaughterhouse in Kobe, and in 1869, a sukiyaki restaurant called “Gekka-tei” opened in Kobe.
TIL
Pigs don’t have expressive faces,
Yes, they do.
built-in emotional understanding of humans
No, they don’t.
I think some dogs do but not all breeds. Some dogs are dumb as shit but still awesome in their own way.
What does betrayal have to do with the morality of killing something?
It’s either right or wrong to kill something if you don’t have to for survival.
If you think killing dogs is wrong, then killing cows or pigs should also be wrong.
I don’t think it’s unfair to say there’s a spectrum to this. I’m not going to feel as bad with an ant dying compared to a dog
Not sure that an ant is relevant to this discussion, since it’s not really similar to a cow, pig, dog, cat, etc.
Curious to where the line is drawn then? And who determines that?
I agree. I still eat shrimp and some fish. The fish bother me, but not enough to stop eating them, and the shrimp don’t bother me cause they’re basically underwater crickets.
For example killing an elephant is worse than killing a chicken. And everyone draws the line somewhere already (unless you’re fine with eating endangered animals and even cannibalism). It’s just where does your own morality draw the line at what level of creature it’s ok to ask to die for your next meal?
You’re talking about morality and I’m considering people’s feelings, however convoluted they might be. It’s not a moral issue, it’s marketing.
Is killing a person a moral issue, or is that also simply marketing?
Your food and clothing likely involved slavery directly and murder by less than a degree of separation, you goober. Yes, it’s a marketing issue.
Clothing doesn’t require the death of anyone the same way eating meat does.
One it’s possible to be cruelty free, and the other is not.
Also, if I knew for a fact that a company committed acts of evil, I would avoid them as best I could, just like I do with meat.
Complaining that eating meat is not actually wrong, it’s just marketing, is just a laughable way to look at ethics and empathy.
Lastly, whataboutism is a joke of a defence.
You’ve said quite a bit to this vegetarian-since-you-were-an-egg that I processed well over a decade ago. I want you, if you don’t mind, to read my other replies and to reread the question I responded to. And with the most belabored sigh that you can imagine, can I say please?
I really appreciate your usage of the word “betrayal” here, I think it’s incredibly apt.
but do you think this makes any moral difference? or that it would matter at all to the being having their throat slashed or thrashing in a gas chamber?Not really, I’m vegetarian out of preference but I get where people come from. I’ve offered the truth of the matter, irrespective of my feelings on it.
Sorry you’re not cute enough, now go into your dungeon, because i really like factory meat.
It’s more. Your farm goat is your friend. That wild goat you caught as a baby will be more like a wolf than a dog. The point is really that we didn’t just breed cows to be fatter than previous cows, but also to be nicer to humans just like dogs.
I made a comment like that to my younger sister when I was just out of high school and you’d think that I had just burned the Bible in front of my father or something.
As a rule, most Americans prefer the bliss of ignorance.
I’d argue the moral judgment here largely comes from people who just plain abstain from pointing that same moral judgment to sentient creatures they do eat. A cow or a pig is no less an individual than a dog.
so the issue isn’t whether cows or dogs are individuals.
This issue is about that, as people are upset about cruelty to dogs but just put blinders on for cows.
No person anyone would consider sane would advocate on behalf of saving watermelons, as they have no emotions like fear or sense of self-preservation. Most westerners know intimately that dogs do, but we choose not to dwell on the similar plight of cows, mostly because of the long standing tradition of eating cows. Tradition as always is an idiot thing.
So yeah, the issue here does revolve around these creatures being sentient individuals, and our erratic recognition of that among the species we choose to consume.
This issue is about that, as people are upset about cruelty to dogs but just put blinders on for cows.
the distinguishing characteristic isn’t necessarily the individuality of each, and given that you’re right that there is no appreciable difference in that regard, there must be some other factor at play.
I’m no vegan
why not?
Doesn’t taste nearly as good, doesn’t satiate the pallette. And yes I’ve tried all the impossibles and faux stuff multiple times because I like to try new things.
That said, I’m completely for alternative routes to meat, and will give them every opportunity as they mature to break my bad habit. Plant based meat just isn’t an adequate nicotine patch for such things, at least not yet.
it really snaps into view when you think about it as an addiction; which also just so happens to be fueling and unfathomably cruel bundle of industries that is destroying the planet - so the stakes are pretty high here.
I would encourage people to try veganuary this year, it’s growing massively and there’s tons of support.I mean couldn’t you argue that anything that gives enjoyment be considered an addiction then. I mean thats sort of the function of seratonin.
and that’s totally fine when it doesn’t inherently victimize someone else.
I hear you. I don’t eat meat, and I haven’t for several years. I still find it extremely tempting sometimes to eat some chicken wings.
The only reason I don’t is because whenever I actually think, “maybe I should just have some,” I get overwhelmed with flashes in my mind visualizing the deaths of the chickens and then I just… can’t.
But if those flashes weren’t there I definitely would’ve caved by now.
that sounds like ptsd.
Understandable, nothing tastes quite as fine as animal suffering.
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Case and point: affluent white women go goo-goo gah-gah over doggies so Westerners immediately revere them above other animals.
It’s cognitive dissonance at its finest, but I don’t expect more from meat-eaters.
While I support the goal of ending dog meat, I think this is approaching it from the wrong side. Don’t attack the supply, attack the demand. All of these dog farmers make their living by selling their product to people who have chosen to buy dog meat. Many of them still want this, and will resort to black markets if it gets banned.
We’re actually on a good path with it right now- they are only able to discuss a ban because it’s fallen out of favor with people. In particular, the younger generations are turning away from it. A marketing campaign against dog meat will face much less resistance than a ban.
I have no sympathy for these farmers or their livelihoods
Yes but it’s pretty much the same industry that farms millions of pigs and chickens here as well 😐
My lack of sympathy extends to most industry farmers and ranchers in the West
Most?
Yeah, fuck em all
Great! They’ll have more room for more pigs and chickens then.
same, if your industry is slashing throats and corralling living sentient beings into gas chambers, you can fuck right off.
While “gas chambers” rightfully invokes Nazi imagery, it isn’t necessarily a cruel method of slaughter. If we assume they use nitrogen gas, the animals will fall asleep/pass out without ever knowing that anything is wrong.
Of course, that doesn’t help if your point wasn’t about cruelty but meat as a whole. It also doesn’t help that this is an extremely rare method of slaughter, because profits.
They use carbon dioxide, unfortunately. It’s not a nice way to go. Source: https://viva.org.uk/animals/slaughter-how-animals-are-killed/pig-gassing-in-the-uk/
Also it’s not uncommon to gas livestock to death, I’m not sure where you got that from
nazis modeled the death camps on animal agriculture, and they were abhorrent, in part, because they treated people like animals.
Well I guess this answers my question of whether there were really that many people still eating dogs. Apparently it’s not as rare as people made it to be.
That’s their threat? If you don’t let us butcher these dogs we’ll let them go?
As much as I don’t want the dogs to be butchered, having two million stray dogs could cause problems.
Unsocialized dogs who now have to find food for the first time in their lives roaming the streets and countryside will cause havoc to everyone around them.
So…terrorism if economic demands are not met?
When I lived in Incheon, I got on the bus to Seoul in front of a dog meat breeding place whatever you call it. Those sounds of dog misery was a huge reason I left the country. Absolutely brutal and barbaric. Glad to know that’s finally changing.
Damn this is some crazy reporting from countries that have gigantic pig factories. Dogs and pigs are so similar 😢
I don’t think the answer is an outright ban of dog meat; does this address cruelty against farm animals, or is it a feel good political move from the current ruling party? Korea loves pork, pigs are treated similarly, and I don’t see any calls for reform there.
I’ve never eaten dog meat but it’s not my place to judge. If the issue is inhumane conditions, then address those. The issue is not consumption of dog meat.
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Do it. You won’t, pussies
Do it. You won’t, bitches
FTFY
What is the environmental effect of dog meat farming vs American farm animal meat?
I was going to say that I think it’s worse since they are carnivorous, but then I remembered that dogs eat kibble as well as meat. Wikipedia says that they can consume starch. Some rando dog-food company claims that wheat isn’t a filler, but adds vitamins and minerals. Idk about all that (not a dog owner) but I imagine that farmed dogs are probably fed the cheapest, most generic kibble available
So… ?
Interesting question, though. Personally just hoping for lab grown meat to become a thing
I don’t know tbh. I do know that cattle is insanely bad and other meats are slightly less bad (it’s not very efficient to heavily deforest our planet for animal feed, like what’s been going on in the Amazon, for example)
They are smaller which means less food waste and can also be kept closer to the point of consumption. But the other person points out their diet is omnivorous rather than just eating grass. If I had to guess I’d say it’s maybe around that of rabbit, which is better than beef but worse than chicken.
Yes release them! Make doggo heaven real.
Sooo… they are threatening to do what the animal-rights people would have done anyway?
Doesn’t sound like much of a threat to me.
Freeing 2 million dogs? Don’t threaten me with a good time…
